(2018-01-08, 02:40 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Welcome to the forum !
The scene of the operation from above and the scene of his mother and sister in Delhi occurred one after the other but also a little later simultaneously (apparently).
What happened next was that he unfortunately found himself on the "rim of hell" and experienced some rather ghastly paraphernalia which I prefer not to focus on because whatever it is, it is ...or is not, if you see what I mean. We can't, of course, know with any real certainty the nature of this other dimension.
It's the veridical out of body experiences that interest me personally.
Thanks,
So the scene with his mother and sister was third person and was happening at the same time as he was having the experience?
And same here. Amongst other things too, but the OBEs are one of the hardest things to explain away
(2018-01-08, 07:36 PM)Desperado Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks,
So the scene with his mother and sister was third person and was happening at the same time as he was having the experience?
And same here. Amongst other things too, but the OBEs are one of the hardest things to explain away
No worries. He was able to look down from the ceiling in the OR and also when he turned his "head" to the right (I think he said) he could see his mother and sister (or so he claimed). I've read of such a scenario many times (of course that doesn't prove anything) ...he did however claim that this observation was correct (the clothes they were wearing and what they said) What is more evidential is him hearing and remembering the dirty joke during the operation because he
wasn't light on anaesthesia according to the surgeons/docs.
(2018-01-10, 07:19 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Professor Wilfried Kuhn, is chief physician at the Neurological Clinic in the Leopoldina Hospital in Schweinfurt, and has worked there for over 20 years. He has an interest in the borderline between science and spirituality. In 1977 he read Dr Raymond Moody's book "Life After Life," the reports of people who had been clinically dead and were revived to speak of their experiences. These people typically saw themselves lying on the operating table, watching doctors fight to save their lives, experienced passing through a tunnel towards a bright light sometimes accompanied by or meeting deceased relatives. And they returned because they were told their life's work was not finished.
Sceptics say it's 'esoteric nonsense,' all medically explainable as hallucinations and brain processes. For Kuhn, however, near-death experiences are an indication that consciousness can exist without matter. He has studeid the phenomenon for many years and in his opinion, they cannot be fully explained neurobiologically.
<snip>
the interview was conducted by Susanne Wiedemann
Excellent stuff, Tim! Where did you get it? And was it already in English? - smithy
(2018-01-10, 07:19 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]................................................
The near-death experiences are marked by feelings of happiness, the feeling of not needing to be afraid of death. Are there any accounts of people going into a negative kind of world? I do not like to talk about hell now. . .
Kuhn: There are actually such cases. The American doctor Barbara Rommer has dealt with this. She has come to the conclusion that these experiences were ultimately also positive for the people. They were fearful/ scared at first, but then they were motivated to change their lives positively.
................................................
Nancy Evans Bush and Bruce Greyson did another study of distressing NDEs, summarized
here. They found that these consisted of void-like or otherwise relatively mildly distressing experiences along with a minority of truly hellish NDEs.
Experiencers are forced to utilize various rationalizations to somehow deal with them, categorized as including "I needed that to turn my life around", "It was only a problem in my brain", and "I must have done something bad".
Quote:"...(some) experiencers have difficulty comprehending or integrating terrifying NDEs. These people, years later, still struggle with the existential implications of the NDE, “I had an experience which has remained with me for 29 years. . . . It has left a horror in my mind and I have never spoken about it until now.” And, “After all these years, the nightmare remains vivid in my mind.” “For some reason, [31 years later] all the memories are back and vivid. . . . It’s like living it all over again, and I don’t want to. I thought I had it all resolved and in its place, but I’m having a really bad time trying to put it away this time."
Quote:A notorious reluctance to report a distressing NDE may lead to long-lasting trauma for individuals as well as limiting the data on occurrence. A literature review covering thirty years of research concludes that as many as one in five NDEs may be predominantly distressing."
Bush and Greyson try to find a positive note by pointing out that
Quote:"As a growing number of studies make clear, even the most devastating life event, like the grit that creates the oyster's pearl, is often what propels people to become more true to themselves, take on new challenges, and view life from a wider perspective. This is a promising and as yet underdeveloped approach for clinicians working with those who report struggling after a distressing NDE."
Anyway, Barbara Rommer may be somewhat simplistic and pollyanaish when considering this type of NDE. It doesn't look like there is yet any plausible agreed-to reassuring interpretation of hellish NDEs.
(2018-01-11, 03:36 PM)Smithy Wrote: [ -> ]Excellent stuff, Tim! Where did you get it? And was it already in English? - smithy
Thanks, Smithy. No it was in German. I'm fairly sure I've got it about right but there could be some nuances possibly that I've missed or a mistake. If anyone knows that Professor Kuhn is actually a materialist who believes NDE's are simply hallucinations, I'd be grateful to know
(2018-01-11, 08:11 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]Experiencers are forced to utilize various rationalizations to somehow deal with them, categorized as including "I needed that to turn my life around", "It was only a problem in my brain", and "I must have done something bad".
It's a sobering paper, isn't it. I don't know what to think; it seems unlikely that the people who reported those particular negative/hellish NDE's deserved that (if that's how it works). We could speculate forever but if there is another world (And I believe there is) I certainly don't think 'sainthood' is a requirement to get there (I'm not saying you think that BTW) but I don't think it's (is there a hell, who goes and why ?) an answerable question.
(2018-01-11, 08:11 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, Barbara Rommer may be somewhat simplistic and pollyanaish when considering this type of NDE. It doesn't look like there is yet any plausible agreed-to reassuring interpretation of hellish NDEs.
I agree with the second sentence but I don't think Barbara Rommer was like that. You can see her here.
http://ndeinfo.wmthost.com/#NDEmovies click on movies and scroll down to the second from the bottom
A and E Special "Beyond death" part 1 April 2000, NDE interviews. go to 44.30. Just before that, there's a nice interview with Pam Reynolds (and Dr Michael Sabom). Pam's grandmother Marie was a wild woman (according to a report from Judy Bacharach) who was married seven times but she was 'there' waiting for Pam (apparently). And it certainly didn't seem like hell.
(2018-01-12, 02:36 PM)Doug Wrote: [ -> ]Der Tod ist nicht das Ende (Death is not the end)
I have looked into the German version.
My impression is that is has been translated pretty correctly.
It comes across as a genuine, positive view about NDE's.
Cheers - Smithy
Quote:Nickell, the paranormal skeptic, says stories of shared-death experiences also rest on a flimsy foundation.
“That’s the problem with all of them – they’re all anecdotal evidence and science doesn’t deal with anecdotal evidence,” Nickell says.
Going way back to a post in this thread by Karmaling in late November, which obviously I'm very late seeing, but I had to dig up this quote by Mr. Nickell.
Really? A "hand-wave" away of the evidence on the old "ancedotes" ground is the best this guy had to say? I mean he's got a point, but only that they don't lead to conclusive proof on their own. Nobody's disagreeing there. However, he goes a step further and just tosses any predictive power behind them as a growing area of evidence straight out the window!
(2018-01-21, 03:24 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Near-death experience: In heaven you don't need shoes
An additional short interview with Christine Stein and the opinion of a sceptical doctor, Frank Erbguth to give some balance towards the sceptical approach to explaining NDE's.
Christine Stein's heart stopped for twenty-three minutes. To save her, the surgeons manually massaged her heart through her open chest. "Hurry up, we have to save this little girl !" they shout. During the resuscitation, Christine watches it from above.
Excellent stuff, Tim! Thanks so much! Smithy