(2019-12-23, 03:28 AM)Mediochre Wrote: [ -> ]It'd be nice if there were english subtitles or something.
Russians don't usually subtitle their Youtube videos, and I don't have time to subtitle this one, so, I just narrated the most important details of her testimony.
(2019-12-23, 08:14 AM)Enrique Vargas Wrote: [ -> ]The only explanation that occurs to me is that this person was reinterpreting something ineffable and well beyond her comprehension that happened to her through the prism of her religious beliefs. With the passage of time she added more and more details to this experience, which took place in 1982, and converted it into something entirely different and terrifying. Even from the Orthodox Christian standpoint, it's aberrant: at some point the supposed angelical entity (or even Christ Himself, it's not clear from her description) who's guiding her on her trip to hell tells her: "don't feel sorry for them, they are sinners". The Church says "we love the sinner, we hate the sin". Meaning, not to feel compassion toward the sinner is completely non-Christian. Then, another aberrant detail. Her guides tell her that there is no way out of hell, with one exception: "some sinner's family members can get them out of hell through constant prayer for their soul" So, basically, if you have an intercessor, you have a chance, if not, no. You have no free will, no influence over your own destiny, nothing. And her "experience" is filled with the nonsense like that. And it's the second one of this nature I hear from Russian experiencers. Weird stuff....
That’s a really good point Enrique. I guess we all filter our experiences through our personal prism. Most of the time it’s more or less a fit for the situation but this is, as you say, ineffable and the approximation doesn’t perhaps accurately reflect what happened(or maybe it does). Like playing a Betamax recording back on a VHS player ?
Quote:Anybody knows if it's true?
The closest person to knowing the truth would be the woman herself, but even she might not know.
At tim's request, I've moved into this thread all posts in his
NDE's thread that aren't accounts of near-death experiences. At times, I have had to insert editing notes at the top of moved posts to indicate to which post in the original thread they refer. Going forward, please post only actual accounts of NDEs in tim's original thread, and if you want to comment on those accounts, then please do so in this thread.
Thanks for doing that, Laird ! It's easier to read and less distracting, I think. Good job !
Laird, please could you transfer these three posts back to the thread 155 160 234 ? I would think they belong there but if you don't agree, that's okay. Cheers !
(2020-03-22, 04:31 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Looking through an NDE forum on Facebook recently, I was fortunate to spot this very interesting and quirky account, witnessed and reported by registered nurse and midwife, Dee Holme Werner, from South Africa.
(I don't have any social media accounts but I joined (temporarily) so that I could ask Dee a little more about it. She very kindly responded in detail)
Dee's initial post on Facebook :
In Nursing School we had to do an operating theatre rotation. I think I was third year by then. A patient died on the table and was successfully resuscitated. Later I went to see how he was doing in the ward. As I walked in he said, "You are the nurse who worked that bag!"
I had assisted the anaesthetist for a very short time 'bagging' (ambu bag) the patient while the anaesthetist prepared to extubate and reintubate the patient. I don't recall what the problem was with the existing tube but it had to be replaced. The patient said he was floating around near the ceiling. He said he saw each detail of the room, adjacent rooms and corridor.
He related lots of details he could not have known about (the surgeon had his own (particular) theatre boots, identified by a funny face drawn on the toes using coloured koki pens (marker); all the intravenous bags were hanging up with the front facing forward but the unit of blood was back to front; the ampoules on the anaesthetist’s table were all in a row but not in size order and not in alphabetical order; the surgeon told a golfing joke during the early part of the surgery; there were other details).
What interested me was his visual memories. We all know about hearing being the last sense to go but how do you explain the things he saw?
And her additional response :
To answer your questions:
1. When did this occur ?
I was at Nursing School from 1967 to about 1972 and this occurred during my operating theatre rotation in my third year. So the year was probably 1970.
2. Please could you give as much detail as possible ?
Some of them were quite personal. The anaesthetist had left the bedside of the patient after the patient had been re-intubated and stabilised. Everything was going okay. The anaesthetist asked me to stand by. I was only a student at the time and would have called him back very quickly if I or anyone else on the team had been worried. The patient said the anaesthetist went to the loo. I didn’t check that out with the anaesthetist, I didn’t ask him or ever follow that up. It isn’t the type of information I would put on Facebook anyway.
3. How many other medical staff were witnesses to this patient’s account ?
The first person to get the information was the surgeon. Apparently the patient asked the surgeon about his boots. The surgeon came across me in the tea room and asked if I recalled any conversation about his boots. He asked if anyone had talked about the little face on his boots. The face was in koki pens of different colours - perhaps placed there by a paediatric patient or the surgeon’s own children?
I said I didn’t remember talking about the boots and why did he ask. Apparently the patient had said to the surgeon when he saw the patient later in the ward, "Oh doctor, I like your boots." This puzzled the surgeon as there is no way the patient could have seen the boots. The patient was already anaesthetised before the surgeon walked to the table side from the scrub room. The surgeon’s point was how could an anaesthetised patent be aware of information dependent upon visual input while he was unconscious. We all know about hearing being the last sense to go and would have accepted the patient knowing about the boots if the topic had been discussed in his presence.
I tended to talk about these things. I cannot remember when my interest in mysticism began but it seems it has always been with me and being a nurse I had a lot of exposure to things, including accounts of NDEs. I spoke to the other girls in my group. It was just one of those stories we nurses shared at the meal table. A story would take centre stage for a bit and then the spotlight would move to another. The span of stories reached wide.
I mentioned to the surgeon the way the patient had greeted me when I walked into his room, "Ah! You are the nurse who …" and asked him what he thought of the patient’s account. The surgeon said he’s a surgeon and a scientist and doesn’t know why patients say these things or have these experiences but he did find some of the details odd.
The other visual perception the patient had was the ampoules on the tray. He commented they were not arranged alphabetically or in size order. Of course they wouldn’t be, because they were arranged in order of administration but again this was a visual experience of the patient, not auditory.
I wish I had followed up more on that patient but hospital life has to remain on the hop to get everything done and one interesting thing follows another.
I trained at Greys Hospital in Pietermaritzburg in South Africa. The operating theatres were in the new block on the first floor. Greys has subsequently moved to much bigger premises. There are other experiences patients have related to me or things I have experienced myself. 50 years as a Registered Nurse and Midwife!
I asked Dee this in addition:
Just a couple of questions. When you were "bagging" the patient, presumably he was completely unconscious, is that correct? Otherwise of course, you wouldn't have been surprised at his description, I guess.
And can you remember how the patient described floating around the room ? Did he just say something like "Hey, nurse, during my operation I was floating around above you and could see everything, including the corridor outside the room etc..." Did he express surprise at such an out of the ordinary experience ?
Did you get the impression that he thought you believed him ? I don't suppose he described anything about in what "form" he felt he was in when he was up there?
Dee Holme Werner:
The patient was completely anaesthetised while being bagged. The bag is an ambu bag. It is applied to the patient’s nose and mouth (good fit) then squeezed according to the volume and rate suitable for the patient. This puts air into the patient’s lungs. The patient has a passive expiration and the next squeeze is done to re-inflate the lungs.
The patient showed no interest in being believed or not believed, it didn’t come into his account at all. He described 'floating around the ceiling' in a way I would describe what I had for breakfast. It happened and he was telling me about it.
I got the impression he was delivering an account of an experience he had gone through that surprised him for its unusualness. He was figuring out what it meant. The possibility that I would not believe him didn’t come into it.
He didn’t say anything about the form he was in except that he was able to float at will, could see and hear everything and felt no attachment to the body on the operating table.
If this patient’s account is of interest to readers that is great.
Many thanks to Dee Holme Werner !
Very interesting thanks Tim.