2019-11-22, 04:10 PM
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2019-11-22, 08:20 PM
(2019-11-22, 04:10 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]Hope this hasn’t been posted already.
It's been around on youtube
I've found Raymond Moody's vids particularly interesting as of late
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWPUBz_EWYc&t=2598s
2019-12-20, 03:30 PM
(2019-12-20, 12:43 PM)Enrique Vargas Wrote: [ -> ]Absolutely horrifying, nightmarish Russian NDE with visions of eternal hell. It's the second Russian NDE of that nature I've seen. She is describing various parts of hell where the sinners are tortured eternally for different sins. I haven't herd an NDE this horrible from Western experiencers. Is this cultural, religion-based idiosyncrasy? If it is, why htose affect our perception of the afterlife? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xnBYdMUNVQWhat was the actual veridical content?
2019-12-20, 03:53 PM
(2019-12-20, 03:30 PM)Obiwan Wrote: [ -> ]What was the actual veridical content?There were no veridical components; she was in a car accident in 82, went into clinical death and had an NDE. As I said, in her NDE there were visions of hell and a stern voice coming from somewhere was narrating the sins of different groups of sinners: drunks, perverts, killers, etc, etc. Really weird and terrifying.
2019-12-20, 05:32 PM
(2019-12-20, 05:15 PM)Max_B Wrote: [ -> ]Do we know any background to the events leading upto the car accident, the car accident itself, and what happened immediately afterwards? Rescue services, police, cause of accident. Sorry don’t speak Russian.She was driving on a highway and had a frontal collision with another car. She was driven to a hospital where she had a cardiac arrest and pronounced dead. She found herself floating above her body seeing the doctors pronouncing her dead. Then she was pulled into a grey tunnel, which she describes as a very unpleasant experience. On the other end she sees a tall man with horrifying eyes who tried to grab her. Another man shows up and gets between them. The "man with terrible eyes" disappears. To make the story short, the "saviour" takes her to all these hellish places where he tell her who suffers for which sin. After all this, she was sucked back into her body in the hospital.
2019-12-20, 05:48 PM
(2019-12-20, 03:53 PM)Enrique Vargas Wrote: [ -> ]There were no veridical components; she was in a car accident in 82, went into clinical death and had an NDE. As I said, in her NDE there were visions of hell and a stern voice coming from somewhere was narrating the sins of different groups of sinners: drunks, perverts, killers, etc, etc. Really weird and terrifying.
The language used, "the sins of different groups of sinners" implies a judgemental viewpoint. If we just think of one another as people, fellow human beings rather than sinners, I suspect that would give a substantial difference in what is perceived.
The question in this instance then, is whether that judgement arises from some independent external and judgemental being, or does it arise within the mind of the experiencer? It seems curious to me, since many NDEs seem to convey a very different type of message. Is that too coming from the mind of the experiencer?
2019-12-20, 06:57 PM
(2019-12-20, 05:48 PM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]The language used, "the sins of different groups of sinners" implies a judgemental viewpoint. If we just think of one another as people, fellow human beings rather than sinners, I suspect that would give a substantial difference in what is perceived.That's why I thought that her perceptions was affected by her religious beliefs: She claims that her "guide", some sort of a divine entity, was describing to her the "sinners" and their "punishment!". She also comes upon a group f children, an is informed that they were aborted. She asked whether she was gonna be punished for her abortions (in the USSR abortions were like a sort of a pass time, women used to have numerous abortions in their life time). Her "guides" didn't respond to that question.
The question in this instance then, is whether that judgement arises from some independent external and judgemental being, or does it arise within the mind of the experiencer? It seems curious to me, since many NDEs seem to convey a very different type of message. Is that too coming from the mind of the experiencer?
2019-12-22, 11:25 PM
(2019-12-20, 03:53 PM)Enrique Vargas Wrote: [ -> ]There were no veridical components; she was in a car accident in 82, went into clinical death and had an NDE. As I said, in her NDE there were visions of hell and a stern voice coming from somewhere was narrating the sins of different groups of sinners: drunks, perverts, killers, etc, etc. Really weird and terrifying.Hm. That sort of thing has been claimed before even from the distant past IIRC. I think it’s very difficult to know how much weight to give to non-veridical experiences like that (for me anyway). What are we to deduce from it do you think?
2019-12-23, 03:28 AM
(2019-12-20, 12:43 PM)Enrique Vargas Wrote: [ -> ]Absolutely horrifying, nightmarish Russian NDE with visions of eternal hell. It's the second Russian NDE of that nature I've seen. She is describing various parts of hell where the sinners are tortured eternally for different sins. I haven't herd an NDE this horrible from Western experiencers. Is this cultural, religion-based idiosyncrasy? If it is, why htose affect our perception of the afterlife? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xnBYdMUNVQ
It'd be nice if there were english subtitles or something.
2019-12-23, 08:14 AM
(2019-12-22, 11:25 PM)Obiwan Wrote: [ -> ]Hm. That sort of thing has been claimed before even from the distant past IIRC. I think it’s very difficult to know how much weight to give to non-veridical experiences like that (for me anyway). What are we to deduce from it do you think?The only explanation that occurs to me is that this person was reinterpreting something ineffable and well beyond her comprehension that happened to her through the prism of her religious beliefs. With the passage of time she added more and more details to this experience, which took place in 1982, and converted it into something entirely different and terrifying. Even from the Orthodox Christian standpoint, it's aberrant: at some point the supposed angelical entity (or even Christ Himself, it's not clear from her description) who's guiding her on her trip to hell tells her: "don't feel sorry for them, they are sinners". The Church says "we love the sinner, we hate the sin". Meaning, not to feel compassion toward the sinner is completely non-Christian. Then, another aberrant detail. Her guides tell her that there is no way out of hell, with one exception: "some sinner's family members can get them out of hell through constant prayer for their soul" So, basically, if you have an intercessor, you have a chance, if not, no. You have no free will, no influence over your own destiny, nothing. And her "experience" is filled with the nonsense like that. And it's the second one of this nature I hear from Russian experiencers. Weird stuff....