(2018-01-27, 01:19 AM)leadville Wrote: [ -> ]Dead is final - no coming back. Hear stopping doesn't equal death. As he was still around after the event, he wasn't dead. Ergo "...appeared to be clincally dead."
Consciousness disappears in both cases but returns in only one of them. 
Leadville said > "Dead is final - no coming back."
I'm so bored of seeing this perennial sceptical mantra which has no basis in fact. Do you so called sceptics never actually read the hundreds of posts where this has been discussed (on Skeptiko) ? Do you not feel any shame, clinging on to tiny perceived loopholes and semantics so you can keep your outdated world view intact ?
Dr Sam Parnia is a recognised expert in resuscitation. He has the blessing of both of the most vocal (and sceptical about NDE's) British psychologists on this subject, French and Blackmore, to carry out his study and report whatever he may find.
This is what he said recently :
In the vast majority of terminal cases, physicians medically define
death based on when the heart no longer beats, said Dr. Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City.
"Technically speaking, that's how you get the time of death — it's all based on the moment when the heart stops," he told Live Science.
Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means
brain function halts "almost instantaneously," Parnia said. "You lose all your brain stem reflexes — your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone."
A trajectory of cell death :
The brain's cerebral cortex — the so-called "thinking part" of the brain — also slows down instantly, and flatlines, meaning that no brainwaves are visible on an electric monitor, within 2 to 20 seconds. This initiates a chain reaction of cellular processes that eventually result in the
death of brain cells, but that can take hours after the heart has stopped, Parnia said.
Performing
cardiopulmonary resuscitation
(CPR) does send some blood to the brain — about 15 per cent of what it requires to function normally, according to Parnia. This is enough to slow the brain cells' death trajectory, but it isn't enough to kick-start the brain into working again, which is why reflexes don't resume during CPR, he said.
https://www.livescience.com/60593-flatli...ation.html
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Death is a process that begins when the heart stops. There is no known absolute marker for how long someone can be dead for and brought back, if their body cells are still viable (meaning they haven't burst). This is a fact, it's not me wanting it to be true.
The crux of the matter is that a person's consciousness is just as absent in the first stage of death (from cardiac arrest) as it is when their head has turned into a ball of maggots.
Trying to suggest that someone who is lying flat out in cardiac arrest, still has some potential ability to know what is occurring around him/her is frankly, idiotic !
