Psience Quest

(2018-03-29, 01:55 AM)Oleo Wrote: [ -> ]You're  doing great work, tim. Thank you

I don't deserve that, Oleo but thanks anyway.

(2018-03-29, 11:56 AM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]I don't deserve that, Oleo but thanks anyway.

No Tim, you DO deserve that!

Smithy

(2018-03-30, 12:15 PM)Smithy Wrote: [ -> ]No Tim, you DO deserve that!

Smithy

Thanks, Smithy.

(2018-04-06, 03:38 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]During his NDE he reports meeting up with a dead Uncle who'd been shot by the Nazi's many decades ago and also saw his wife's dead Grandmother, whom he'd never met. It seems when he decided he didn't want to come back to earth, they (the relatives) 'pushed' him back into his body.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlmLbnMyVU0

Well that's kind of enraging. I wonder what made them think they had the right to shove him back into a body he didn't want to inhabit? And how they'd react if the same were done to them?

(2018-04-09, 07:46 PM)Mediochre Wrote: [ -> ]Well that's kind of enraging. I wonder what made them think they had the right to shove him back into a body he didn't want to inhabit? And how they'd react if the same were done to them?

Perhaps they did have the right.

(2018-04-09, 07:53 PM)Obiwan Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps they did have the right.

The right to force people to do things against their will?

(2018-04-09, 09:35 PM)Mediochre Wrote: [ -> ]The right to force people to do things against their will?

Yes it happens everyday in our world. Sometimes because other people know what is best for us and sometimes because that’s the law. Doesn’t it?

Something crossed my mind yesterday while watching a TV show called "The Leftovers" which has some scenes of a "dead" man returning to life. Of course, I started thinking about NDE accounts and wondered about resuscitation. At some point in the typical NDE account, a decision is made to return to the body. Meanwhile, in the cardiac care unit, a team is fervently trying to get the heart started again. Somehow and at some point the decision and the resuscitation efforts have to combine to start the heart again so, what occurred to me is how this spirit/body coordination works. Are we to assume that, had the decision been different, the heart would never have started despite the best efforts of the medical team? Or, conversely, had that team given up and left the room, would the heart have started again without assistance?

To my mind, this indicates a kind of inevitability: the heart was always going to be restarted in that manner and the decision was illusory. In other words, those helpers on the other side knew all too well that this was a temporary visit. Another possibility - in line with the idea of creating our own reality - is that the choice is between two probable outcomes. So either is valid and both are played out.

(2018-04-09, 10:01 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]Something crossed my mind yesterday while watching a TV show called "The Leftovers" which has some scenes of a "dead" man returning to life. Of course, I started thinking about NDE accounts and wondered about resuscitation. At some point in the typical NDE account, a decision is made to return to the body. Meanwhile, in the cardiac care unit, a team is fervently trying to get the heart started again. Somehow and at some point the decision and the resuscitation efforts have to combine to start the heart again so, what occurred to me is how this spirit/body coordination works. Are we to assume that, had the decision been different, the heart would never have started despite the best efforts of the medical team? Or, conversely, had that team given up and left the room, would the heart have started again without assistance?

To my mind, this indicates a kind of inevitability: the heart was always going to be restarted in that manner and the decision was illusory. In other words, those helpers on the other side knew all too well that this was a temporary visit. Another possibility - in line with the idea of creating our own reality - is that the choice is between two probable outcomes. So either is valid and both are played out.

Hm that’s an interesting point. Perhaps there is a point beyond which return isn’t possible and that once  a person has decided to go beyond that point, or some other agency has decided it, death is inevitable. Perhaps up to that point while there is  still some sort of connection, return is possible?

(2018-04-09, 10:01 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]Something crossed my mind yesterday while watching a TV show called "The Leftovers" which has some scenes of a "dead" man returning to life. Of course, I started thinking about NDE accounts and wondered about resuscitation. At some point in the typical NDE account, a decision is made to return to the body. Meanwhile, in the cardiac care unit, a team is fervently trying to get the heart started again. Somehow and at some point the decision and the resuscitation efforts have to combine to start the heart again so, what occurred to me is how this spirit/body coordination works. Are we to assume that, had the decision been different, the heart would never have started despite the best efforts of the medical team? Or, conversely, had that team given up and left the room, would the heart have started again without assistance?

To my mind, this indicates a kind of inevitability: the heart was always going to be restarted in that manner and the decision was illusory. In other words, those helpers on the other side knew all too well that this was a temporary visit. Another possibility - in line with the idea of creating our own reality - is that the choice is between two probable outcomes. So either is valid and both are played out.

Interesting ideas.

The apparent synchronisation between physical and non-physical worlds may not be inevitable. Resuscitation does not always succeed. There are other outcomes such as patient on long-term life support or in a coma state. Perhaps it succeeds where the consciousness chooses (or is persuaded) to return. Or in cases where resuscitation attempts are abandoned, but the patient spontaneously returns to life soon afterwards, that could be a result of a conscious decision to return.

One other aspect not mentioned here, sometimes the people remaining on Earth, whether family or partner or even children yet unborn, may also play a role. Where there are strong ties between people, that may sway the outcome. At least that seems to be how it is expressed in the NDE narrative.  It always seems as though we must express these things in terms of 'maybe', human existence resists being constrained by our descriptions.