tim: Personally, I think there is some kind of subtle body, that's what many report but I can't begin to imagine how that works.
[quote pid='14026' dateline='1517153030']
Valmar: "There is definitely a subtle body ~ that's what leaves the body during OBEs. Our subtle body still isn't our Self or Soul, but just another body we inhabit, much like our physical one. The subtle body occupies the lighter astral density of this physical realm..."
The etheric is like a quasi-physical reality and all reality is an extension of your physical reality, a more refined extension of it, more flexible, more clay-like, more malleable.
Realize, first of all, that the body and the spirit are really simply different manifestations of the same energy. It is simply a projection of the soul [and by definition the Oversoul] in material form. Not that your soul has arms and legs, as it needs none; but it is a projection of an idea, projection of consciousness.
One of the qualities of consciousness is energy. When you 'die' you transform that energy into whatever you wish and, in the case of the NDE, we can use the etheric component (subtle body if you will) as a place to place that energy for continued learning in our physical expereince. Or we can use it to take a new point of view which is called the 'afterlife' (review).
(2018-01-29, 09:19 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]I'll leave the silliness to you
No, I'll leave it to you.
Kinda ignored the rest, eh?
(2018-01-28, 11:46 PM)leadville Wrote: [ -> ]We appear to approach the subject of what constitutes death from understandings very different from each others.
Of course, would you not expect a polarity of viewpoints? Without them, where is the learning?
As you march along in your physical experience, you will run into more and more the existence of a pattern of ideas from several experience investigations and events. Physical/mental mediumship, OBE, others. If you toss out the NDE in your experience, as you most certainly have the right to do so, then you will have to toss out all of the other experiences and experiencers who will be pointing out the continuity of life.
Here's the good news. If you so choose that vibration, expect to find yourself, one day, on an Earth (physical reality) that matches. All the True Believers lol will be off doing their other thing and you will have the physical learning experience that you were 'incarnated to have' with the belief systems you have chose and those of like vibration too.
All(ah) is good.
(2018-01-29, 09:47 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]tim: Personally, I think there is some kind of subtle body, that's what many report but I can't begin to imagine how that works.
[quote pid='14026' dateline='1517153030']
Valmar: "There is definitely a subtle body ~ that's what leaves the body during OBEs. Our subtle body still isn't our Self or Soul, but just another body we inhabit, much like our physical one. The subtle body occupies the lighter astral density of this physical realm..."
The etheric is like a quasi-physical reality and all reality is an extension of your physical reality, a more refined extension of it, more flexible, more clay-like, more malleable.
Realize, first of all, that the body and the spirit are really simply different manifestations of the same energy. It is simply a projection of the soul [and by definition the Oversoul] in material form. Not that your soul has arms and legs, as it needs none; but it is a projection of an idea, projection of consciousness.
One of the qualities of consciousness is energy. When you 'die' you transform that energy into whatever you wish and, in the case of the NDE, we can use the etheric component (subtle body if you will) as a place to place that energy for continued learning in our physical expereince. Or we can use it to take a new point of view which is called the 'afterlife' (review).
[/quote]
I know you don't need to bother with books to understand what's going on Pssst (with your 'connections' up there...! ) but I was re-reading 'Life after Life' recently and I was struck by how many of the people interviewed by Moody reported having some kind of "body" during their out of physical body experiences.
The reports haven't altered at all subsequently and yet Moody's collection of anecdotes was lambasted as an unrepresentative sample, absolutely not to be trusted. Prospective studies have shown he was right.
(2018-01-29, 10:25 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]I know you don't need to bother with books to understand what's going on Pssst (with your 'connections' up there...! ) but I was re-reading 'Life after Life' recently and I was struck by how many of the people interviewed by Moody reported having some kind of "body" during their out of physical body experiences.
The reports haven't altered at all subsequently and yet Moody's collection of anecdotes was lambasted as an unrepresentative sample, absolutely not to be trusted. Prospective studies have shown he was right.
I started my spiritual quest underscored by personal and shared experiences rapidly progressing to associated tools like paper books imprinted with ink. I am still, to this day, a Platinum Member of the Metaphysical Book of the Hour Club. Lotta reading required, Mr. Moody's were the first that I read when I was, like, 2. Or 3. Yeah, 3.
i just gave a-way my age o well
The NDE is a highly specific OBE. If you want to best understand the NDE, pluck up your courage and have a non-specific OBE. Let the wisdom flow.
One moment...one moment...I am getting downloads from Arcturus McFartus RetickleU beings...one moment...channeling...
Dr. Moody was right...
static...
You generate your physical experiences...
static...
Sometimes you have body, sometimes not...
static...
<eom>
Got to go. Channeling
wears me out.
Can somebody help me understand this, as I always thought hypoxia was one of the oldest explanations in the book for NDEs. And one of the biggest differences people claim is the clarity and vividness of the experience over a case of hypoxia. But here, Steven Novella claims there are cases of hypoxia where the subject WAS hyper active and hyper clear.
Those are the signs of hypoxia, and a sign is something that you observe in somebody. A symptom is something that the person experiences themselves. Even when people are observed to look delirious with hypoxia, they may report that during that period of time they had the peace and well-being, a euphoric episode. They also at times will report a hyper-clarity or hyper-attentiveness that is described by NDE experiencers."
Can you post the link you found this at, Desperado?
(2018-02-08, 11:51 AM)Valmar Wrote: [ -> ]Can you post the link you found this at, Desperado?
Here Valmar. Novella doesn't point to any specific papers and I believe he said he would send the ones he was referencing to Alex in an email afterwards. Alex pressed him and the "papers" never were linked to him
http://skeptiko.com/near-death-experienc...n-novella/
I have since inquired about Novellas claims with Irreducible Mind author Ed Kelly, who extensively looked over the same studies I imagine Novella is talking about while researching for his before mentioned book. And Ed definitely had a different opinion:
Quote:The skeptical literature is full of bogus analogies between NDEs and all sorts of other things they slightly resemble. One good way to tell them apart is in terms of aftereffects - unlike things they're compared to, NDEs often have enormous transformative impact. My colleague Bruce Greyson is especially sensitive to this aspect of NDEs because he like other psychiatrists spends a lot of his time trying to help people make tiny gains in their lives over weeks and months or more, gains that are eclipsed by what happens to NDEers in seconds or minutes.
Steven Novella, BTW, is a Promotor Fidei, an Inquisitor on behalf of the prevailing bankrupt physicalism, and one of the worst of the professional skeptics.
[To eliminate confusion after moving this post to the commentary thread: Oleo posted it immediately after this post of tim's in the original thread --Laird]
You're doing great work, tim. Thank you