Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

I know you don't need to bother with books to understand what's going on Pssst (with your 'connections' up there...! ) but I was re-reading 'Life after Life' recently and I was struck by how many of the people interviewed by Moody reported having some kind of "body" during their out of physical body experiences.

The reports haven't altered at all subsequently and yet Moody's collection of anecdotes was lambasted as an unrepresentative sample, absolutely not to be trusted. Prospective studies have shown he was right.

I started my spiritual quest underscored by personal and shared experiences rapidly progressing to associated tools like paper books imprinted with ink. I am still, to this day, a Platinum Member of the Metaphysical Book of the Hour Club. Lotta reading required, Mr. Moody's were the first that I read when I was, like, 2. Or 3. Yeah, 3.

i just gave a-way my age o well

The NDE is a highly specific OBE. If you want to best understand the NDE, pluck up your courage and have a non-specific OBE. Let the wisdom flow.

One moment...one moment...I am getting downloads from Arcturus McFartus RetickleU beings...one moment...channeling...

Dr. Moody was right...static...
You generate your physical experiences...static...
Sometimes you have body, sometimes not...static...
<eom>

Got to go. Channeling wears me out.

Can somebody help me understand this, as I always thought hypoxia was one of the oldest explanations in the book for NDEs. And one of the biggest differences people claim is the clarity and vividness of the experience over a case of hypoxia. But here, Steven Novella claims there are cases of hypoxia where the subject WAS hyper active and hyper clear. 

Those are the signs of hypoxia, and a sign is something that you observe in somebody. A symptom is something that the person experiences themselves. Even when people are observed to look delirious with hypoxia, they may report that during that period of time they had the peace and well-being, a euphoric episode. They also at times will report a hyper-clarity or hyper-attentiveness that is described by NDE experiencers."

Can you post the link you found this at, Desperado?

Can you post the link you found this at, Desperado?

Here Valmar. Novella doesn't point to any specific papers and I believe he said he would send the ones he was referencing to Alex in an email afterwards. Alex pressed him and the "papers" never were linked to him

http://skeptiko.com/near-death-experienc...n-novella/

I have since inquired about Novellas claims with Irreducible Mind author Ed Kelly, who extensively looked over the same studies I imagine Novella is talking about while researching for his before mentioned book. And Ed definitely had a different opinion: 

The skeptical literature is full of bogus analogies between NDEs and all sorts of other things they slightly resemble. One good way to tell them apart is in terms of aftereffects - unlike things they're compared to, NDEs often have enormous transformative impact. My colleague Bruce Greyson is especially sensitive to this aspect of NDEs because he like other psychiatrists spends a lot of his time trying to help people make tiny gains in their lives over weeks and months or more, gains that are eclipsed by what happens to NDEers in seconds or minutes.


Steven Novella, BTW, is a Promotor Fidei, an Inquisitor on behalf of the prevailing bankrupt physicalism, and one of the worst of the professional skeptics. 

[To eliminate confusion after moving this post to the commentary thread: Oleo posted it immediately after this post of tim's in the original thread --Laird]

You're  doing great work, tim. Thank you

You're  doing great work, tim. Thank you

I don't deserve that, Oleo but thanks anyway.

I don't deserve that, Oleo but thanks anyway.

No Tim, you DO deserve that!

Smithy

No Tim, you DO deserve that!

Smithy

Thanks, Smithy.

During his NDE he reports meeting up with a dead Uncle who'd been shot by the Nazi's many decades ago and also saw his wife's dead Grandmother, whom he'd never met. It seems when he decided he didn't want to come back to earth, they (the relatives) 'pushed' him back into his body.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlmLbnMyVU0

Well that's kind of enraging. I wonder what made them think they had the right to shove him back into a body he didn't want to inhabit? And how they'd react if the same were done to them?

Well that's kind of enraging. I wonder what made them think they had the right to shove him back into a body he didn't want to inhabit? And how they'd react if the same were done to them?

Perhaps they did have the right.