(2023-11-16, 08:13 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately this looks at least to me like the actions of a person who has been threatened with career ruin if he doesn't back off from his close to paranormal phenomena claims.
It could well be so. Yet isn't that paper with it's references to other dimensions etc already a bit hard to digest for mainstream science? (I think it mentions that anyway, might be wrong). It certainly proposes two alternatives to the origins of consciousness, bottom up (the current one) or top down. I was astounded when I saw that, it's heresy.
Don't know if this is the right place for this article, if it's not (mods) feel free to reposition somewhere else.
A truncated piece on Dr Michael Sabom, who we haven't seen for decades! He's now a religious retired doctor but his initial work was nevertheless meticulous and sceptics have never been able to debunk it.
Cardiologist Says Near-Death Experiences Are Not Afterlife (insider.com)
If you click on the consciousness link, you get another free article about Mark Gober who I beleive is some kind of scientific entrepreneur.
(2023-11-16, 09:15 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]It could well be so. Yet isn't that paper with it's references to other dimensions etc already a bit hard to digest for mainstream science? (I think it mentions that anyway, might be wrong). It certainly proposes two alternatives to the origins of consciousness, bottom up (the current one) or top down. I was astounded when I saw that, it's heresy.
But this is just the medium grade heresy of considering consciousness as maybe not being a epiphenomenon of material interactions of nerve cells. To the fundamentalist materialist members of the church of scientism the heresy of even hinting at the real existence of the spirit, soul and the afterlife is an extremely heinous hanging offense or at least deeming of a severe punishment.
(2023-11-18, 12:37 AM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]But this is just the medium grade heresy of considering consciousness as maybe not being a epiphenomenon of material interactions of nerve cells. To the fundamentalist materialist members of the church of scientism the heresy of even hinting at the real existence of the spirit, soul and the afterlife is an extremely heinous hanging offense or at least deeming of a severe punishment.
You have no idea how bad it is on r/consciousness right now on Reddit. Tons of people basically accusing any non physicalist of being “afraid of death” “religious” or “wanting an afterlife”.
A lot of non physicalist theories have nothing to do with religion or afterlife. It’s gotten so obnoxious and toxic on there it’s impossible to have any discussion.
(2023-11-18, 01:39 AM)LotusFlower Wrote: [ -> ]You have no idea how bad it is on r/consciousness right now on Reddit. Tons of people basically accusing any non physicalist of being “afraid of death” “religious” or “wanting an afterlife”.
A lot of non physicalist theories have nothing to do with religion or afterlife. It’s gotten so obnoxious and toxic on there it’s impossible to have any discussion.
From time to time this forum has a visit from someone holding somewhat overwhelming views of that type. I tend to be disappointed not by anyone in particular but by the overall difficulty of finding common ground, some area where all are loosely agreed, within which it might be possible to poke and stretch at the boundaries.
It's unfortunate, from my perspective because these topics such as psi as well as the possibility of a non-material soul have an impact on how I perceive everyday life. Looking at near-death experiences definitely is not only about death and an afterlife. It is also very much about living, the present.
(2023-11-18, 12:37 AM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]But this is just the medium grade heresy of considering consciousness as maybe not being a epiphenomenon of material interactions of nerve cells. To the fundamentalist materialist members of the church of scientism the heresy of even hinting at the real existence of the spirit, soul and the afterlife is an extremely heinous hanging offense or at least deeming of a severe punishment.
Yes, interestingly Islam seems to be acceptable to some in academia, don't know why that might get some special treatment ocassionally but I won't go there.
(2023-11-18, 11:35 AM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]From time to time this forum has a visit from someone holding somewhat overwhelming views of that type. I tend to be disappointed not by anyone in particular but by the overall difficulty of finding common ground, some area where all are loosely agreed, within which it might be possible to poke and stretch at the boundaries.
It's unfortunate, from my perspective because these topics such as psi as well as the possibility of a non-material soul have an impact on how I perceive everyday life. Looking at near-death experiences definitely is not only about death and an afterlife. It is also very much about living, the present.
I don't lose any sleep over the fact that there are hordes of deluded members of the church of materialist scientism, or for that matter over the existence of hordes of other fundamentalists of various established religions. I may not really know what is ultimate truth, but I think I do know that certain things definitely aren't.
(2023-11-18, 04:38 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, interestingly Islam seems to be acceptable to some in academia, don't know why that might get some special treatment ocassionally but I won't go there.
Yes, acceptable and even special treatment. Even though Islam (along with most other religions) is untenable according to the materialist scientism that rules Academia. I think this conflict or cognitive dissonance has to do with the success of the post modernist woke movement to establish a near tyranny in Academia, where social inequalities such as racial injustice, the evils of colonialism, sexism and LGBT rights take priority over philosophical and scientific issues. In fact, the woke practitioners tend to look down on scientists and philosophers and mathematicians with all of their hard-won knowledge as tools of the corrupt established order.
Moderator note: recent posts veer into sociopolitics. If this continues, they'll be moved into a companion thread in the opt-in forums (alternatively, feel free to create a new thread there in which to continue the discussion).
(2023-11-18, 01:39 AM)LotusFlower Wrote: [ -> ]You have no idea how bad it is on r/consciousness right now on Reddit. Tons of people basically accusing any non physicalist of being “afraid of death” “religious” or “wanting an afterlife”.
A lot of non physicalist theories have nothing to do with religion or afterlife. It’s gotten so obnoxious and toxic on there it’s impossible to have any discussion.
A website pretty much dedicated to & for a particular New Atheist type, with admins who can just delete any thread or argument that leaves materialists stumped.
These hivemind locations don't worry me overmuch because the fact they have to hide out in such little areas means their power continues to wane in the larger public sphere...