(2022-09-20, 07:18 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]I wish I knew what a spiritual being actually is. Do you know ? If you don't, I'll ask Laird.
Oh, tim, I don't think I have any more authority than you in this respect. We could consult a dictionary, but we'd probably just end up going around in circles with various words mutually referencing one another. My guess is that you only
know for sure that to which that phrase refers when you have an experience like that of Josef Striesselberger.
(2022-09-21, 03:19 AM)Laird Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, tim, I don't think I have any more authority than you in this respect. We could consult a dictionary, but we'd probably just end up going around in circles with various words mutually referencing one another. My guess is that you only know for sure that to which that phrase refers when you have an experience like that of Josef Striesselberger.
Yes you do, Laird, you're a Sheriff round these parts, ain't ya ? If you see one of them goddamn "spritual" beings, you let me know, goddamnit !!
But being serious, I agree. When you have the experience you don't need to wonder, you know.
I was watching this long and rather medically-oriented group presentation when there was this startling account from Dr. Tom Aufderheide. He was mentioned in one of Dr Sam Parnia's books as Dr Aufderheide had a patient who knew things he should not have known during cardiac arrest.
I've linked to a point about 45 minutes in where Parnia is talking, then it is Tom's turn to speak.
(sound quality is a bit poor, but still very audible)
What Happens When We Die? Surviving Cardiac Arrest
(2022-11-09, 04:06 PM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]I was watching this long and rather medically-oriented group presentation when there was this startling account from Dr. Tom Aufderheide. He was mentioned in one of Dr Sam Parnia's books as Dr Aufderheide had a patient who knew things he should not have known during cardiac arrest.
I've linked to a point about 45 minutes in where Parnia is talking, then it is Tom's turn to speak.
(sound quality is a bit poor, but still very audible)
What Happens When We Die? Surviving Cardiac Arrest
That's a great experience.
This is the report of a very senior surgeon from Spain, Dr Manuel Sans Segarra, who was on duty at the Bellvitge hospital in Barcelona, when one of the actual hospital staff (coincidentally) was brought in dead (in cardiac arrest) from a very serious car accident. She suffered catastrophic internal injuries and trauma (apparently).
She was eventually resuscitated and her life was saved by his surgical intervention. When she woke up (or some time later) it seems the surgeon who had an interest in NDE's (because some of his trauma patients had reported them) gently enquired if she remembered anything from the time of her arrest (or when she was brought in)
At first she wouldn't talk about it but then it apparently all came out...she'd seen everything from a position above the trauma/operating room in detail and knew exactly what had occurred. She even tried to talk to the surgeon and attempted to touch him with her hand (whatever a disembodied/spiritual hand is) but it simply passed right through him (of course).
She not only knew what was going on in the room there, when she was dead (flat EEG he says) but she also saw what was going on in adjacent rooms, particularly one where a patient was undergoing an operation on his neck. She saw that (that precise procedure) and reported to the surgeon who then went to check the computor records which proved her right.
I invite the perenial, always doubting sceptics, to provide an explanation for this case which mirrors many others in the literature. (hint--more than one rock falling from the sky) This is what all the fuss is about and this is why materialism cannot be correct.
In order to see his comments about the case, set the auto-translate to English. It's not perfect and there's a little bit of drop out on it but you can get the basic details.
ECMs: INFORMACIÓN PRÁCTICA PARA PERSONAL SANITARIO - YouTube starts at 3.23
(2023-03-09, 05:58 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]She not only knew what was going on in the room there, when she was dead (flat EEG he says) but she also saw what was going on in adjacent rooms, particularly one where a patient was undergoing an operation on his neck. She saw that (that precise procedure) and reported to the surgeon who then went to check the computor records which proved her right.
Hi tim.
The surgeon is not talking about a neck operation, but of a femoral neck operation (on the groin)
This seems to be yet another veridical NDE/OBE which incidentally (with regards to the last post made by tim) also comes from Spain and is related by Dr. Miguel Angel Pertierra Quesada, an otolaryngologist from Málaga in Spain, who has incidentally interviewed parapsychologist Titus Rivas (a friend of mine and a member of this forum, who has also included some cases related by Dr. Pertierra in
The Self Does Not Die)
Dr. Pertierra mentions that this case was not included in the book he wrote about NDEs, but seems somewhat interesting.
Since the interview is in spanish (and, as it happens, spanish is my first language) I'll be happy to provide a translation for the excerpt
Quote:"There's another case that isn't in the book (Pertierra's book) either; [the patient] even recognizes the brand of the anesthesia machine which was the first brought in to the hospital - the first and only one at that moment. And when we went to try it out - because it had been supposedly checked out and was functional for the surgical intervention - we observed that it didn't work, and they had to bring in one of the old ones. And so [the patient] tells [me] about the brand, which today is one of the main brands of anesthesia machines that exist at the moment. And, well, I don't- and nobody mentioned at that moment the name of the [brand of the] machine because it made no sense at all"
Córdoba Misteriosa T2X04 Experiencias cercanas a la muerte (con Miguel Ángel Pertierra) - YouTube
The case is related at minute 17.10
Listening to this NDEr interview right now. Interesting account of the phenomelogy of the experience, and having verification from the doctor afterwards of hearing/seeing what he said out of the body. Very good on how distressing it was, and still hard for her, to assimilate the radical shifts in her (materialistic "scientific") worldview and entire life.
Interesting bit about the "downloads" of information while out of the body. Similar to other accounts where you don't suddenly get automatic downloads of all available information about everything, but as soon as you think about a topic or have a question the information is automatically there.