We are not nearly as determined by our genes as once thought.

If you’re one goal here is to persuade proponents on your side, you are wasting your time. Skeptics and proponents alike have already taken their stances on these issues, and I highly doubt anyone has had their opinion changed. Nbtruthman will continue to believe what he believes like you will. I agree with the messsage you are trying to convey. I also struggle to understand how there could be intention in evolution when nature is so barbaric and cruel. Like Max_B has suggested, providing links to such deformities would still get the point across without having to resort to shock value.

I've given up trying to change the minds of certain members. My agenda has always been long before there was an internet to ask people whom are certain of psi's reality to ask themselves *why this certainty. It is not now or in the past my goal to convert.
Posting links would not have the same impact. Sometimes a swift kick in the pants works.
Nbtruthman argues there's purpose to life and evolution has a goal by some entity. Since that's the position, so he needs to explain how deformities fit in.

*The answer I always hear is it's the evidence such as a personal experience, testimonial or research done by others. I say that's not it. There seems to be some innate need to believe in a greater transcendent reality and the transcendent nature of their personal existence.

I've given up trying to change the minds of certain members. My agenda has always been long before there was an internet to ask people whom are certain of psi's reality to ask themselves *why this certainty. It is not now or in the past my goal to convert.
Posting links would not have the same impact. Sometimes a swift kick in the pants works.

*The answer I always hear is it's the evidence such as a personal experience, testimonial or research done by others. I say that's not it. There seems to be some innate need to believe in a greater transcendent reality and the transcendent nature of their personal existence.

I've given up trying to change the minds of certain members. My agenda has always been long before there was an internet to ask people whom are certain of materialism's reality to ask themselves *why this certainty. I would like to convert them to immaterialism, because I can be honest about why I am posting and not pretend to some detached neutrality.


I find that posting links that encourage discussion is best, a "swift kick in the pants" would show I am some bitter soul who just wants conflict rather than any real discussion.

*The answer I always hear is it's neuroscience, physics, biology. I say none of that shows materialism is true, but some of the people have no actual ability in the sciences and confuse field effects in physics for Psi. There seems to be some innate need among the religious believers in physicalism who have no scientific ability, a need to disbelieve in a greater transcendent reality and the transcendent nature of their personal existence.

I've given up trying to change the minds of certain members. My agenda has always been long before there was an internet to ask people whom are certain of materialism's reality to ask themselves *why this certainty. I would like to convert them to immaterialism, because I can be honest about why I am posting and not pretend to some detached neutrality.


I find that posting links that encourage discussion is best, a "swift kick in the pants" would show I am some bitter soul who just wants conflict rather than any real discussion.

*The answer I always hear is it's neuroscience, physics, biology. I say none of that shows materialism is true, but some of the people have no actual ability in the sciences and confuse field effects in physics for Psi. There seems to be some innate need among the religious believers in physicalism who have no scientific ability, a need to disbelieve in a greater transcendent reality and the transcendent nature of their personal existence.

Oh my! A gut punch. Try again.

Oh my! A gut punch. Try again.

Just the truth. 10 or so years since you were told by the skeptic physicists at JREF to stop "wasting your life" trolling forums when you asked them to come argue against an actual physicist, and in all that time you couldn't learn what a field effect is. If that doesn't show someone who only uses "science" as a drapery for hoping to convert others what does?

You're a troll Steve, as demonstrated in this thread where we were discussing genes and when we ignored your worthless side commentary you jumped in by using the suffering of those who are disabled, exploiting them. It's like a toddler acting out because their parents stopped doting on them for a moment.

In fact I recall you made a similarly rude thread of pictures of corpses on Skeptiko, insisting that proponents haven't truly confronted death (I assume you used some deep Psi power to know our personal lives?). Didn't you get temporarily banned for that?

[Pollux]

I've given up trying to change the minds of certain members. My agenda has always been long before there was an internet to ask people whom are certain of psi's reality to ask themselves *why this certainty. It is not now or in the past my goal to convert.
Posting links would not have the same impact. Sometimes a swift kick in the pants works.
Nbtruthman argues there's purpose to life and evolution has a goal by some entity. Since that's the position, so he needs to explain how deformities fit in.

*The answer I always hear is it's the evidence such as a personal experience, testimonial or research done by others. I say that's not it. There seems to be some innate need to believe in a greater transcendent reality and the transcendent nature of their personal existence.

Hey Steve, I'm not saying this as a moderator at this point, but you could have made your point without displaying pictures of deformed infants. Conjoined twins is one thing, but you could have explained your point in words instead of going for the "shock-factor". It's uncalled for - and crude.

I haven't read the thread from the start (just the last few posts) but I think I get a gist of it. There is lots of deformities, caused by all kinds of environmental reasons (biological, chemical, radiation, DNA-related anomalies) etc. If your point is that unless every person is formed in what we call a "normal healthy form" there cant be a form of creative force behind it, is like saying; if there is a God, why do people die.

We can pull up the most hideous deformities, that many many people has to live through. Often times these are happening in India - for some reason. We dont know why. We could speculate it might be environmental etc, but regardless they have a large portion of the range of deformities that can inflict man. They are, even though they area billion people, have been sort of homogenous in later centuries. Also China (at over a billion) also have these cases/displays of deformities that  look surreal. We cant say they are inbred (with a billion people) but they tend to happen often in these two countries. I wont post pictures, but they are easy to find.

I'm far from an biologist, and in top-knowledge of evolutionary DNA at all. But for the sake of argument; lets say there could very well be a "prime-mover", who "set the stage" with all its "obstacles". Saying; here is your "playground" - there will be obstacles, there will be pain, and suffering, and unfairness, and unbelievable suffering. But there will also be also immense  joy, happiness, developments of mind & body, incredibly lows, but also equal highs - and somewhere in the middle of it - you will find life. It will a struggle, and nothing is set in stone - but that's life.


It's a "playground" - but eventually you will come home.

I saw this drawing a few years ago and showed it for the family and kids, and they said; "it would be nice if it would be, but I doubt it.....but I hope..."



Yeah, I know Steve, you hate even the notion that there might be something bigger than you - and the materialistic world you perceive - but perhaps....perhaps.

Just the truth. 10 or so years since you were told by the skeptic physicists at JREF to stop "wasting your life" trolling forums when you asked them to come argue against an actual physicist, and in all that time you couldn't learn what a field effect is. If that doesn't show someone who only uses "science" as a drapery for hoping to convert others what does?

You're a troll Steve, as demonstrated in this thread where we were discussing genes and when we ignored your worthless side commentary you jumped in by using the suffering of those who are disabled, exploiting them. It's like a toddler acting out because their parents stopped doting on them for a moment.

In fact I recall you made a similarly rude thread of pictures of corpses on Skeptiko, insisting that proponents haven't truly confronted death (I assume you used some deep Psi power to know our personal lives?). Didn't you get temporarily banned for that?

Another valiant attempted at a gut punch. You know what they say, third times a charm. You do realize you're a stranger who's opinion towards me matters not?

P.S. Yes, some members do the utmost to seek ways to cheat death. NDE topics are popular ain't they?

Another valiant attempted at a gut punch. You know what they say, third times a charm. You do realize you're a stranger who's opinion towards me matters not?

P.S. Yes, some members do the utmost to seek ways to cheat death. NDE topics are popular ain't they?

So you are determined to keep with the same behaviors, jumping into threads to make them about what you wish to discuss even if it means posting pictures of the dead, the disabled, etc?

If so why shouldn't you be permanently banned?

[Ninshub]

I also think there should be an amendment  to the forum rules to allow moderators to remove images deliberately posted to be both shocking and distressing. This could be ISIS cutting off people’s heads. Burned bodies in a fire. And pictures of mutated stillborn babies. You might want to include Explicit pornography as that is probably outside of the forums purpose too

Certain things seem so obvious you wouldn't think you would need to make a rule about them, but then again...

[Ninshub]

I've deleted the images.