(2019-01-22, 05:09 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: ...it's like suggesting that Paley's watch, rather than either being made by a watchmaker combined with the creativity of several generations of earlier intelligent human inventors, or even formed by the blind purposeless Darwinian RM + NS process mechanism (where the organizing information is supposed to ultimately come from the environment via natural selection), instead simply appeared spontaneously out of nothing by some sort of self-organizing process of the constituent elementary particles of the various elements in the final watch.
Again, I think these classical analogies are just approximations... and inaccurate...
I really don't have a dog in this fight... because I really don't think the argument matters... it doesn't get me any closer to understanding things...
So this is perhaps a little off target, but, I thought I would just drop this in... Adrian Thompson had been evolving hardware circuits using evolutionary algorithms that take full advantage of the properties of materials since the mid 90's. It really doesn't matter whether they know the properties of the materials they are using to evolve the circuit, or not, because whatever is available, nature just takes full advantage of them, and we get left with not understanding how or why these circuits work. But they do. Only the designs cannot be transferred, as they are completely unique to the hardware.
The last appearance/publication that I could find of Adrian (who I suspect may emerge as a modern day Turing in the fullness of time), was a transatlantic video-link appearance at a Department of Defense sponsored conference in the USA for evolutionary hardware in the early 2000's, which confirmed that he had moved on with his research, and was now manipulating tiny things to evolve circuits, such as rotating molecules (and even smaller things) to build evolving hardware.
When you read Adrians papers, they are astonishing (well they are to me) it seems that things probably add-up and are ordered nicely at some really fundamental level (deeper than fields), and it's the hardware that needs to adapt to the fields. And not the other way round as we do today, where we try to force the fields to do what we want, by forcing them to conform using fixed hardware...
How we manufacture and design circuits, run our societies, control our gardens by forcing nature to conform, all using laws and rules, seem to be related... and it looks to me that this will to control and conform, is almost like a sickness, and will eventually have to change... and it may start with whatever finally emerges in the fullness of time, from the fruits of Adrians research into evolving hardware. I have little doubt it's coming... and soon.
Here's a 21 year old article about Adrian's early work...
Quote:CREATURES FROM PRIMORDIAL SILICON
Let Darwinism loose in an electronics lab and just watch what it
creates. A lean, mean machine that nobody understands. Clive Davidson
reports
"GO!" barks the researcher into the microphone. The oscilloscope in
front of him displays a steady green line across the top of its
screen. "Stop!" he says and the line immediately drops to the bottom.
Between the microphone and the oscilloscope is an electronic circuit
that discriminates between the two words. It puts out 5 volts when it
hears "go" and cuts off the signal when it hears "stop".
It is unremarkable that a microprocessor can perform such a
task - except in this case. Even though the circuit consists of only a
small number of basic components, the researcher, Adrian Thompson,
does not know how it works. He can't ask the designer because there
wasn't one. Instead, the circuit evolved from a "primordial soup" of
silicon components guided by the principles of genetic variation and
survival of the fittest.
Thompson's work is not aimless tinkering. His brand of evolution
managed to construct a working circuit with fewer than one-tenth of
the components that a human designer would have used. His
experiments - which began four years ago and earned him his PhD -are
already making waves....
Link to a scraped version of the full article below:
http://www.netscrap.com/netscrap_detail.cfm?scrap_id=73
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
(This post was last modified: 2019-01-22, 07:48 PM by Max_B.)
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
![[-]](https://psiencequest.net/forums/images/collapse.png)