(2018-07-31, 10:25 AM)Brian Wrote: I wonder if you will acknowledge that this is no different to scientist's usual attempts to prove evolutionary theory rather than just seeing what possibilities the results open up and giving due credence to all reasonable models.
(2018-07-31, 06:51 PM)Dante Wrote: My point is that their intent really doesn't matter. The evidentiary and logical soundness of their ideas or studies do. Are Ewert's arguments strong, do they make sense, are they fair based on the evidence, etc? Those are the things that matter.
Brian just made an excellent point. There are clearly materialistic scientists who thrive on the idea that they could crush religion or the spiritual, that the random, unguided, mechanistic evolutionary picture is the right one. They are driven by that. Would you discredit them because they are trying to prove their own point of view rather than following the evidence or checking their own biases? Certainly not, because you agree with their worldview. You only call out people like Ewert because you are repulsed by the notion that there is something more than random, purposelessness behind life and this universe.
I know your point. If Ewert' keep to the science I would not utter a peep. But intent matters like it or not. Guessing my motives has led you to a wrong conclusion. My objections are entirely practical. Brian, see my reply to Dante previously.
Here's a question for you et al. Why is it important to have God or consciousness or some metaphysical cause to drive evolution? I'll anticipate your reciprocal question. *I can only speak for the country I live in. The reason I dislike creationism and IDism in the public arena is because the persons involved are entirely uncompromising non inclusive and would have a political agenda that would make Christian dogma the only acceptable way of life. They would roll back women's health issues by preventing women from aquiring reproductive health information. They tried back in the 80's early 90's. Creationists et al. would be a threat to science education by promoting the Genesis creation story. I once knew two individuals that believed based upon Genesis that humans and dinosaurs walked the Earth at the same time. There are people on YouTube professing the Bible teaches the Earth is flat. Those are religious beliefs not science. I also know including such a nebulous consciousness does it concept would eventually be conflated to mean God.
* It seems European countries have concerns. https://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/X2H...=11751〈=en Doc. 11375
17 September 2007
The dangers of creationism in education
Report
Committee on Culture, Science and Education
Rapporteur: Mrs Anne BRASSEUR, Luxembourg, ALDE
Summary
Creationism in any of its forms, such as “intelligent design”, is not based on facts, does not use any scientific reasoning and its contents are definitely inappropriate for science classes.
However, some people call for creationist theories to be taught in European schools alongside or even in place of the theory of evolution. From a scientific view point, there is absolutely no doubt that evolution is a central theory for our understanding of life on Earth.
The Assembly calls on education authorities in member states to promote scientific knowledge and the teaching of evolution and to oppose firmly any attempts at teaching creationism as a scientific discipline.
A. Draft resolution
1. For some people the Creation, as a matter of religious belief, gives a meaning to life. Nevertheless, the Parliamentary Assembly is worried about the possible ill-effects of the spread of creationist ideas within our education systems and about the consequences for our democracies. If we are not careful, creationism could become a threat to human rights which are a key concern of the Council of Europe.
2. Creationism, born of the denial of the evolution of species through natural selection, was for a long time an almost exclusively American phenomenon. Today creationist ideas are tending to find their way into Europe and their spread is affecting quite a few Council of Europe member states.