"The Cosmic Hoax: An Exposé" by Steven Greer

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Steven Greer's recent documentary, The Cosmic Hoax: An Exposé (premiered Jul 5, 2021), is well worth a watch. Here, in brief, are some of its key claims:
  1. The authorities know what UFOs are in detail. The current drip-drip so-called "disclosure" is a sham.
  2. Not only do the authorities know what UFOs are in detail, they have reverse engineered UFO technology in detail to the point of having built their own flying machines using that technology.
  3. The intelligent agents piloting UFOs do not wish us harm. Claims to the contrary by the authorities are attempts to further their (the authorities') war machine so as to take advantage of the rest of us.
  4. Folks like those at the To The Stars Academy are either intelligence agents knowingly pushing this line (UFOs are a potential threat, and the authorities are not yet certain what they are), or are being duped into doing so.
Note: it is not possible to embed this video, because YouTube has flagged it as age-restricted, requiring you to log on to YouTube and view it on that site.
(This post was last modified: 2021-07-08, 03:16 PM by Laird.)
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(2021-07-08, 03:12 PM)Laird Wrote: Steven Greer's recent documentary, The Cosmic Hoax: An Exposé (premiered Jul 5, 2021), is well worth a watch. Here, in brief, are some of its key claims:
  1. The authorities know what UFOs are in detail. The current drip-drip so-called "disclosure" is a sham.
  2. Not only do the authorities know what UFOs are in detail, they have reverse engineered UFO technology in detail to the point of having built their own flying machines using that technology.
  3. The intelligent agents piloting UFOs do not wish us harm. Claims to the contrary by the authorities are attempts to further their (the authorities') war machine so as to take advantage of the rest of us.
  4. Folks like those at the To The Stars Academy are either intelligence agents knowingly pushing this line (UFOs are a potential threat, and the authorities are not yet certain what they are), or are being duped into doing so.
Note: it is not possible to embed this video, because YouTube has flagged it as age-restricted, requiring you to log on to YouTube and view it on that site.

This stuff appears to me on the surface at least to be somewhat deranged conspiracy theorist nonsense. For instance, if there was such a conspiracy, it would have to have been going on for very many years, at least since the 1960s. The likelihood that for all these years absolutely everyone involved kept their mouths completely shut about it would seem miniscule. It's not human nature. Secondly, such UFO technology would surely have been applied to visible weapon systems in the military inventory by now, to actually take advantage of the superiority on the battlefield of having such technology - there would have been too much pressure to use it in a way it would inevitably be at least occasionally "visible" to the rest of the military and the public. And there would have been too much pressure to commercialize the UFO technology to make money - this is after all a very deeply capitalist society, and opportunity for great profit would have been irresistable. Yet there is no trace of such transformative new technology being actually applied in our society.

All that being said, there are still a few UFO incidents over the years that more than hint at something like such a conspiracy, such as the Cash-Landrum UFO incident, a well-known case that has obvious covert government military UFO technology involvement overtones:

A summary at https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/...cident.htm

Quote:A UFO sighting on the evening of December 29, 1980, changed the lives of three Texans forever -- and not for the good.

While driving through the southern tip of the east Texas piney woods, north of Houston, Betty Cash, Vickie Landrum, and Vickie's seven-year-old grandson Colby came upon a huge diamond-shaped object just above the trees and 130 feet away. Cash hit the brakes, and she and the elder Landrum stepped outside. Immediately, they noticed intense heat. Their faces felt as if they were burning. When Vickie reentered the car and touched the dashboard to steady herself, she left a handprint.

Blasting fire and heat, the UFO slowly ascended. Suddenly, numerous helicopters -- 23 in all -- appeared from all directions, positioning themselves near the strange craft. By this time the witnesses were back in the car and watching the spectacle from their moving vehicle. (Other motorists saw the object and the helicopters from different, more distant locations.) Eventually, the flying objects were lost to view. Unfortunately, the episode was only beginning.

Back home the three fell sick, Cash most severely. She suffered blisters, nausea, headaches, diarrhea, loss of hair, and reddening of the eyes. On January 3, unable to walk and nearly unconscious, she was admitted to a Houston hospital. Vickie and Colby were experiencing the same symptoms, though less severely.

The witnesses' health problems continued for years. In September 1991 Cash's personal physician, Dr. Brian McClelland, told the Houston Post that her condition was a "textbook case" of radiation poisoning, comparable to being "three to five miles from the epicenter of Hiroshima." For years the three pursued their case through the courts, seeking answers and redress, but official agencies deny any knowledge of the incident-even though the helicopters have been identified as twin-rotor Boeing CH-47 Chinooks, used by both the Army and the Marines.

(From the Wiki entry, which has somewhat more detail):

Quote:"Due to the Chinook helicopters' presence, the witnesses presumed that at least one branch of the United States Armed Forces witnessed the object, if they were not actually escorting or pursuing it. However, investigators could find no evidence linking the helicopters with any branch of the military that they were able to access.

In 1982, Lt. Col. George Sarran of the Department of the Army Inspector General began the only thorough formal governmental investigation into the supposed UFO encounter. He could not find any evidence that the helicopters the witnesses claimed to have seen belonged to the U.S. Armed Forces. Sarran stated that "Ms. Landrum and Ms. Cash were credible ... the policeman and his wife [who claimed to have seen 12 helicopters near the UFO encounter site] were also credible witnesses. There was no perception that anyone was trying to exaggerate the truth.""

Note: Compartmented "Black" projects typically simply don't exist to the public or even to the rest of the government, enforced by severe penalties.
(This post was last modified: 2021-07-08, 05:01 PM by nbtruthman.)
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(2021-07-08, 04:46 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: This stuff appears to me on the surface at least to be somewhat deranged conspiracy theorist nonsense.

I see where you're coming from, and I'm not here to tell you you're wrong, just to give an airing to all views - I'm not decided myself.

(2021-07-08, 04:46 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: The likelihood that for all these years absolutely everyone involved kept their mouths completely shut about it would seem miniscule.

But isn't the point of Steven's Disclosure Project that not everyone is keeping their mouths shut?

(2021-07-08, 04:46 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: Secondly, such UFO technology would surely have been applied to visible weapon systems in the military inventory by now, to actually take advantage of the superiority on the battlefield of having such technology - there would have been too much pressure to use it in a way it would inevitably be at least occasionally "visible" to the rest of the military and the public.

A fair point to which I don't have a rejoinder, rather a note: that the technology seems to be propulsion- rather than weapons-based. This is not to deny that it might enhance the deployment of weapons, just to wonder whether those who wish to keep the tech secret would risk visibility by launching weapons from it that might as well be launched from traditionally-propelled tech.

(2021-07-08, 04:46 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: All that being said, there are still a few UFO incidents over the years that more than hint at something like such a conspiracy, such as the Cash-Landrum UFO incident, a well-known case that has obvious covert government military UFO technology involvement overtones

Ah, I wasn't aware of that one already. Thanks for the link - I might do a bit of digging into it.
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27:00's in.

Really hard for me to grant this documentary real credibility at this point.  Lots of "just so" statements (including Greer stating that the ET's "reached out" to Eisenhower.  No explanation as to how Greer knows this).

I also find utterly unremarkable the fixation on the phenomenon whereby a splintered populace unites under a common threat.  Its not like this is new or not well understood.  Its as old as time immortal.  Doesn't mean it isn't exploitable; I'm quite confident it is.  I just find the presentation of this as novel to be confusing.

Finally (for now), I'm waiting for an explanation as to why these advanced, apparently benign beings have chosen to work only through corrupt humans.  Any sentient race that interested in assisting humans in their peaceful evolution would seem quite likely to have tactics that could circumvent our bad actors. Wink
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(2021-07-08, 11:40 PM)Silence Wrote: 27:00's in.

Really hard for me to grant this documentary real credibility at this point.  Lots of "just so" statements (including Greer stating that the ET's "reached out" to Eisenhower.  No explanation as to how Greer knows this).

I also find utterly unremarkable the fixation on the phenomenon whereby a splintered populace unites under a common threat.  Its not like this is new or not well understood.  Its as old as time immortal.  Doesn't mean it isn't exploitable; I'm quite confident it is.  I just find the presentation of this as novel to be confusing.

Finally (for now), I'm waiting for an explanation as to why these advanced, apparently benign beings have chosen to work only through corrupt humans.  Any sentient race that interested in assisting humans in their peaceful evolution would seem quite likely to have tactics that could circumvent our bad actors. Wink

There would be the possibility that the aliens are interested in making certain changes in our society via outside manipulations, and have chosen the most efficient means, the means to achieve the greatest changes with the minimum outside interference (i.e. keeping the true source of the changes secret through the very secret intelligence apparatus they chose to manipulate). Perhaps they would not care much what segment of our society they work with. For instance, by analogy say we wanted to manipulate ancient Roman civilization in certain ways. The experts could quite likely choose to go through the emperor and his ruling apparatus including the Praetorian Guard, as the most efficient means. And disregard the moral problems of going through a ruling elite that fosters such abominations as the Roman circuses with all their cruelty.
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(2021-07-09, 04:57 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: There would be the possibility that the aliens are interested in making certain changes in our society via outside manipulations, and have chosen the most efficient means, the means to achieve the greatest changes with the minimum outside interference (i.e. keeping the true source of the changes secret through the very secret intelligence apparatus they chose to manipulate). Perhaps they would not care much what segment of our society they work with. For instance, by analogy say we wanted to manipulate ancient Roman civilization in certain ways. The experts could quite likely choose to go through the emperor and his ruling apparatus including the Praetorian Guard, as the most efficient means. And disregard the moral problems of going through a ruling elite that fosters such abominations as the Roman circuses with all their cruelty.

Sure, if the aliens themselves were bad actors.  The documentary seems to suggest (assert actually) that they are benign and interested in "good".

I'm still stuck about half way through as it hasn't gotten any more 'credible" feeling as I slog through it. Wink
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https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/o...about_lue/

DANNY'S PUBLIC STATEMENT ABOUT LUE ELIZONDO & CHRIS MELLON
On April 24th of this year, in my capacity as the 2001 General Counsel to the May 10th, 2001 Disclosure Project Event at The National Press Club in Washington, DC, I attended, in Scottsdale, Arizona, the 20th Anniversary Gathering of many of the Principals who organized that 2001 event.
At that time, I granted an interview reflecting on the “progress” that I believed had been made, since 2001, in “bringing forward” the cause of getting our American Public - and our American Policy-Makers - to “take seriously” the fact that UFOs are real… and that the “most probable origin of many of these UFOs” is, indeed, some Extra-Terrestrial planet… very likely from elsewhere in our own Milky Way Galaxy. During that interview, I was asked if I believed that there existed some “extra-Constitutional” group of people who possessed a substantial amount of information about these UFOs and about the likelihood that the origin of many of these UFOs was Extra-Terrestrial.
I responded by providing a lengthy explanation of why I believed that there has been – and still presently IS, indeed, such an extra-“Constitutional” group restricting access to this knowledge. And I explained, further, that I suspected that it was likely that members of this same group were responsible for “secreting” other important information and activities from our American people - and from our democratically- elected Congressional and Executive Branch officials.
Unfortunately, THIS portion of my interview was extracted from what I understood to have been a “20th Anniversary Documentary about the 2001 Disclosure Event” and it was inserted into a documentary film dedicated to promulgating what I expressly stated, in that interview, was, in my judgment an incorrect theory on the part of Dr. Steven Greer (the Founder of The Disclosure Project) with which I most emphatically DIS-agreed. Moreover, that portion of my “20th Anniversary Interview” in which I criticized what I believed to be an un-Constitutional “Cabal” (as I referred to it) was “spliced into” the midst of a later-recorded interview of Dr. Greer in which Dr. Greer was aggressively attacking Mr. Lue Elizondo, the former Director of the entirely Constitutional, Congressionally- authorized, “Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Project” - whom I happen to legally represent - and attacking Mr. Chris Mellon, the former entirely-Constitutionally-authorized Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence for both President Clinton and President George “W.” Bush, Chris Mellon being a man whom I personally greatly respect for the courage he has displayed in joining with my client Lue Elizondo to “move forward” the strategic objective of revealing government information authoritatively verifying: (A) that a significant percentage of the reliably-reported sightings of UFOs over the past decades are, in fact, REAL, PHYSICAL vehicles; and (B ) that the “most likely origin of these real UFOs is Extra-Terrestrial.”
I am issuing this official public statement to make it unequivocally clear that I do NOT agree with Dr. Steven Greer’s theory that the recent confirmation, by our U.S. Defense Department, that a clear majority of the 2004 to 2017 reports of UFOs are “REAL physical vehicles” is part of some secret plan on the part of our National Security State Bureaucracy to stage some imminent “False Flag” “Fake Alien Invasion”. Nor do I agree with Dr. Steven Greer’s public assertions that either Lue Elizondo or Chris Mellon are part of any such covert plan. I, instead, am firmly convinced that both Lue Elizondo and Chris Mellon are engaged in an entirely good-faith effort to expose the fact that some members of our United States Government are in possession of information that reveals not only that UFOs are REAL, but that the significant majority of the experts within our United States Government who are “briefed in” on any significant portion of the information that our government agencies possess regarding the UFO (or UAP) phenomenon hold a good-faith and well-founded belief that a substantial portion of the reliably-reported sightings of UFOs are, indeed, “off-world vehicles” of an “Extra-Terrestrial” origin. And I expressly stated my disagreement with Dr. Greer’s representations to the contrary in my April 24th Interview. But this statement was edited “out” of my interview. And what I said about the “Cabal” that is secreting this information. Was inserted into Dr. Greer’s attack on Lue Elizondo and Chris Mellon – that made it look like I was attributing them some role in Dr. Greer’s projected “Planned Fake Alien Invasion.” I want it made clear that I am expressly publicly DIS-agreeing with Dr. Greer’s characterization of Luís Elizondo and Christopher Mellon. And I am publicly stating that my statements of April 24th, 2021 made about an entirely different “unconstitutional Cabal” were placed out of context in the documentary film entitled “The Great Hoax” which gave the false impression that I was indicating that I believed that my own client, Lue Elizondo, as well as Mr. Christopher Mellon were privy to – and part of – such an unconstitutional conspiracy. They are NOT.
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(2021-07-08, 05:44 PM)Laird Wrote: I see where you're coming from, and I'm not here to tell you you're wrong, just to give an airing to all views - I'm not decided myself.


But isn't the point of Steven's Disclosure Project that not everyone is keeping their mouths shut?


A fair point to which I don't have a rejoinder, rather a note: that the technology seems to be propulsion- rather than weapons-based. This is not to deny that it might enhance the deployment of weapons, just to wonder whether those who wish to keep the tech secret would risk visibility by launching weapons from it that might as well be launched from traditionally-propelled tech.


Ah, I wasn't aware of that one already. Thanks for the link - I might do a bit of digging into it.
Of course there is a 'conspiracy cover up'. I wouldn't expect anything from a responsible government. But it's not a 'conspiracy' as such, just standard fibs about what we are not supposed to know about. 

Greer's claims about human retro-engineering UFPs may or may not be true. But there is no way of confirming any of his claims. He knows that and has relied on numbers of apparently credible people. That's not just a smart moves - its all he has. it may be possible to check out the witnesses to the point where you may or may not agree there is something to the claim. But then what do you do with beyond sending cranky emails to you local representative demanding the alien tech be released. That's not going to happen.

I ignore Greer because he's not useful to me. On the other hand I find contactee 'information' more useful because it details with attitudes and values that make clear sense and are actionable in a more productive way.

Greer's issue with ET tech is about clean energy that has imagined positive economic and environmental benefits. But demanding release of that tech to the general public is not the same as driving changes in attitudes and values that may have the same impact.

Greer is a STEM guy. I am a humanities guy. I am not denying or trying to invalidate Greer. I do not think he is a conspiracy nut. I have seen quite bit of his stuff, including this latest move. He just doesn't do it for me. I think he's a valid part of the mix of responses - just not the strongest.

I am not into STEM based solutions to our woes. They have a role, but having ET solve our energy issues means we can continue to be assholes to each other and the environment. Contactees have a different take - and make more sense.
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(2021-07-14, 11:24 AM)Aussie Mike Wrote: I find contactee 'information' more useful because it details with attitudes and values that make clear sense and are actionable in a more productive way.
(2021-07-14, 11:24 AM)Aussie Mike Wrote: Contactees have a different take - and make more sense.

Mike! Good to see you on the forums.

I'm curious to know what you see as the contactee information and take, and what attitudes and values they represent. In The Phenomenon, the Zimbabwe school children who witnessed a UFO seemed to suggest that the beings from that ship were trying to communicate an environmental message: stop messing up your planet. Is that the sort of thing you have in mind?

On the other hand, we have cattle mutilations and painful procedures without anaesthesia carried out on abductees who are terrified, which perhaps suggest a less compassionate approach. How do we reconcile these sort of acts with a more positive view of the abductors?
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(2021-07-14, 11:24 AM)Aussie Mike Wrote: having ET solve our energy issues means we can continue to be assholes to each other and the environment.

I have a casual interest in following the renewable energy scene here in Australia, mostly by dipping in semi-regularly to the Renew Economy site's feed.

Today, I noticed an ABC news article Expert says massive green energy hub project in WA 'could power Australia'.

It seems to me then that we are well on our own way to solving our energy issues.

I take your point that what we do with the energy matters a great deal, and that a signification part of what we do with our energy is "be assholes to each other and the environment". I wonder, then, whether you think that our gradually solving "the energy problem" ourselves versus having it suddenly solved for us in ET tech is a better path to making less destructive use of our (increasingly renewable) energy resources.

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