Steven Greer's recent documentary,
The Cosmic Hoax: An Exposé (premiered Jul 5, 2021), is well worth a watch. Here, in brief, are some of its key claims:
- The authorities know what UFOs are in detail. The current drip-drip so-called "disclosure" is a sham.
- Not only do the authorities know what UFOs are in detail, they have reverse engineered UFO technology in detail to the point of having built their own flying machines using that technology.
- The intelligent agents piloting UFOs do not wish us harm. Claims to the contrary by the authorities are attempts to further their (the authorities') war machine so as to take advantage of the rest of us.
- Folks like those at the To The Stars Academy are either intelligence agents knowingly pushing this line (UFOs are a potential threat, and the authorities are not yet certain what they are), or are being duped into doing so.
Note: it is not possible to embed this video, because YouTube has flagged it as age-restricted, requiring you to log on to YouTube and view it on that site.
(2021-07-08, 03:12 PM)Laird Wrote: [ -> ]Steven Greer's recent documentary, The Cosmic Hoax: An Exposé (premiered Jul 5, 2021), is well worth a watch. Here, in brief, are some of its key claims:
- The authorities know what UFOs are in detail. The current drip-drip so-called "disclosure" is a sham.
- Not only do the authorities know what UFOs are in detail, they have reverse engineered UFO technology in detail to the point of having built their own flying machines using that technology.
- The intelligent agents piloting UFOs do not wish us harm. Claims to the contrary by the authorities are attempts to further their (the authorities') war machine so as to take advantage of the rest of us.
- Folks like those at the To The Stars Academy are either intelligence agents knowingly pushing this line (UFOs are a potential threat, and the authorities are not yet certain what they are), or are being duped into doing so.
Note: it is not possible to embed this video, because YouTube has flagged it as age-restricted, requiring you to log on to YouTube and view it on that site.
This stuff appears to me on the surface at least to be somewhat deranged conspiracy theorist nonsense. For instance, if there was such a conspiracy, it would have to have been going on for very many years, at least since the 1960s. The likelihood that for all these years absolutely everyone involved kept their mouths completely shut about it would seem miniscule. It's not human nature. Secondly, such UFO technology would surely have been applied to visible weapon systems in the military inventory by now, to actually take advantage of the superiority on the battlefield of having such technology - there would have been too much pressure to use it in a way it would inevitably be at least occasionally "visible" to the rest of the military and the public. And there would have been too much pressure to commercialize the UFO technology to make money - this is after all a very deeply capitalist society, and opportunity for great profit would have been irresistable. Yet there is no trace of such transformative new technology being actually applied in our society.
All that being said, there are still a few UFO incidents over the years that more than hint at something like such a conspiracy, such as the Cash-Landrum UFO incident, a well-known case that has obvious covert government military UFO technology involvement overtones:
A summary at
https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/...cident.htm :
Quote:A UFO sighting on the evening of December 29, 1980, changed the lives of three Texans forever -- and not for the good.
While driving through the southern tip of the east Texas piney woods, north of Houston, Betty Cash, Vickie Landrum, and Vickie's seven-year-old grandson Colby came upon a huge diamond-shaped object just above the trees and 130 feet away. Cash hit the brakes, and she and the elder Landrum stepped outside. Immediately, they noticed intense heat. Their faces felt as if they were burning. When Vickie reentered the car and touched the dashboard to steady herself, she left a handprint.
Blasting fire and heat, the UFO slowly ascended. Suddenly, numerous helicopters -- 23 in all -- appeared from all directions, positioning themselves near the strange craft. By this time the witnesses were back in the car and watching the spectacle from their moving vehicle. (Other motorists saw the object and the helicopters from different, more distant locations.) Eventually, the flying objects were lost to view. Unfortunately, the episode was only beginning.
Back home the three fell sick, Cash most severely. She suffered blisters, nausea, headaches, diarrhea, loss of hair, and reddening of the eyes. On January 3, unable to walk and nearly unconscious, she was admitted to a Houston hospital. Vickie and Colby were experiencing the same symptoms, though less severely.
The witnesses' health problems continued for years. In September 1991 Cash's personal physician, Dr. Brian McClelland, told the Houston Post that her condition was a "textbook case" of radiation poisoning, comparable to being "three to five miles from the epicenter of Hiroshima." For years the three pursued their case through the courts, seeking answers and redress, but official agencies deny any knowledge of the incident-even though the helicopters have been identified as twin-rotor Boeing CH-47 Chinooks, used by both the Army and the Marines.
(From the Wiki entry, which has somewhat more detail):
Quote:"Due to the Chinook helicopters' presence, the witnesses presumed that at least one branch of the United States Armed Forces witnessed the object, if they were not actually escorting or pursuing it. However, investigators could find no evidence linking the helicopters with any branch of the military that they were able to access.
In 1982, Lt. Col. George Sarran of the Department of the Army Inspector General began the only thorough formal governmental investigation into the supposed UFO encounter. He could not find any evidence that the helicopters the witnesses claimed to have seen belonged to the U.S. Armed Forces. Sarran stated that "Ms. Landrum and Ms. Cash were credible ... the policeman and his wife [who claimed to have seen 12 helicopters near the UFO encounter site] were also credible witnesses. There was no perception that anyone was trying to exaggerate the truth.""
Note: Compartmented "Black" projects typically simply don't exist to the public or even to the rest of the government, enforced by severe penalties.
(2021-07-08, 04:46 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]This stuff appears to me on the surface at least to be somewhat deranged conspiracy theorist nonsense.
I see where you're coming from, and I'm not here to tell you you're wrong, just to give an airing to all views - I'm not decided myself.
(2021-07-08, 04:46 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]The likelihood that for all these years absolutely everyone involved kept their mouths completely shut about it would seem miniscule.
But isn't the point of Steven's Disclosure Project that
not everyone is keeping their mouths shut?
(2021-07-08, 04:46 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]Secondly, such UFO technology would surely have been applied to visible weapon systems in the military inventory by now, to actually take advantage of the superiority on the battlefield of having such technology - there would have been too much pressure to use it in a way it would inevitably be at least occasionally "visible" to the rest of the military and the public.
A fair point to which I don't have a rejoinder, rather a note: that the technology seems to be propulsion- rather than weapons-based. This is not to deny that it might enhance the deployment of weapons, just to wonder whether those who wish to keep the tech secret would risk visibility by launching weapons from it that might as well be launched from traditionally-propelled tech.
(2021-07-08, 04:46 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]All that being said, there are still a few UFO incidents over the years that more than hint at something like such a conspiracy, such as the Cash-Landrum UFO incident, a well-known case that has obvious covert government military UFO technology involvement overtones
Ah, I wasn't aware of that one already. Thanks for the link - I might do a bit of digging into it.
27:00's in.
Really hard for me to grant this documentary real credibility at this point. Lots of "just so" statements (including Greer stating that the ET's "reached out" to Eisenhower. No explanation as to how Greer knows this).
I also find utterly unremarkable the fixation on the phenomenon whereby a splintered populace unites under a common threat. Its not like this is new or not well understood. Its as old as time immortal. Doesn't mean it isn't exploitable; I'm quite confident it is. I just find the presentation of this as novel to be confusing.
Finally (for now), I'm waiting for an explanation as to why these advanced, apparently benign beings have chosen to work only through corrupt humans. Any sentient race that interested in assisting humans in their peaceful evolution would seem quite likely to have tactics that could circumvent our bad actors.
(2021-07-08, 11:40 PM)Silence Wrote: [ -> ]27:00's in.
Really hard for me to grant this documentary real credibility at this point. Lots of "just so" statements (including Greer stating that the ET's "reached out" to Eisenhower. No explanation as to how Greer knows this).
I also find utterly unremarkable the fixation on the phenomenon whereby a splintered populace unites under a common threat. Its not like this is new or not well understood. Its as old as time immortal. Doesn't mean it isn't exploitable; I'm quite confident it is. I just find the presentation of this as novel to be confusing.
Finally (for now), I'm waiting for an explanation as to why these advanced, apparently benign beings have chosen to work only through corrupt humans. Any sentient race that interested in assisting humans in their peaceful evolution would seem quite likely to have tactics that could circumvent our bad actors.
There would be the possibility that the aliens are interested in making certain changes in our society via outside manipulations, and have chosen the most efficient means, the means to achieve the greatest changes with the minimum outside interference (i.e. keeping the true source of the changes secret through the very secret intelligence apparatus they chose to manipulate). Perhaps they would not care much what segment of our society they work with. For instance, by analogy say we wanted to manipulate ancient Roman civilization in certain ways. The experts could quite likely choose to go through the emperor and his ruling apparatus including the Praetorian Guard, as the most efficient means. And disregard the moral problems of going through a ruling elite that fosters such abominations as the Roman circuses with all their cruelty.
(2021-07-09, 04:57 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]There would be the possibility that the aliens are interested in making certain changes in our society via outside manipulations, and have chosen the most efficient means, the means to achieve the greatest changes with the minimum outside interference (i.e. keeping the true source of the changes secret through the very secret intelligence apparatus they chose to manipulate). Perhaps they would not care much what segment of our society they work with. For instance, by analogy say we wanted to manipulate ancient Roman civilization in certain ways. The experts could quite likely choose to go through the emperor and his ruling apparatus including the Praetorian Guard, as the most efficient means. And disregard the moral problems of going through a ruling elite that fosters such abominations as the Roman circuses with all their cruelty.
Sure, if the aliens themselves were bad actors. The documentary seems to suggest (assert actually) that they are benign and interested in "good".
I'm still stuck about half way through as it hasn't gotten any more 'credible" feeling as I slog through it.
(2021-07-08, 05:44 PM)Laird Wrote: [ -> ]I see where you're coming from, and I'm not here to tell you you're wrong, just to give an airing to all views - I'm not decided myself.
But isn't the point of Steven's Disclosure Project that not everyone is keeping their mouths shut?
A fair point to which I don't have a rejoinder, rather a note: that the technology seems to be propulsion- rather than weapons-based. This is not to deny that it might enhance the deployment of weapons, just to wonder whether those who wish to keep the tech secret would risk visibility by launching weapons from it that might as well be launched from traditionally-propelled tech.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that one already. Thanks for the link - I might do a bit of digging into it.
Of course there is a 'conspiracy cover up'. I wouldn't expect anything from a responsible government. But it's not a 'conspiracy' as such, just standard fibs about what we are not supposed to know about.
Greer's claims about human retro-engineering UFPs may or may not be true. But there is no way of confirming any of his claims. He knows that and has relied on numbers of apparently credible people. That's not just a smart moves - its all he has. it may be possible to check out the witnesses to the point where you may or may not agree there is something to the claim. But then what do you do with beyond sending cranky emails to you local representative demanding the alien tech be released. That's not going to happen.
I ignore Greer because he's not useful to me. On the other hand I find contactee 'information' more useful because it details with attitudes and values that make clear sense and are actionable in a more productive way.
Greer's issue with ET tech is about clean energy that has imagined positive economic and environmental benefits. But demanding release of that tech to the general public is not the same as driving changes in attitudes and values that may have the same impact.
Greer is a STEM guy. I am a humanities guy. I am not denying or trying to invalidate Greer. I do not think he is a conspiracy nut. I have seen quite bit of his stuff, including this latest move. He just doesn't do it for me. I think he's a valid part of the mix of responses - just not the strongest.
I am not into STEM based solutions to our woes. They have a role, but having ET solve our energy issues means we can continue to be assholes to each other and the environment. Contactees have a different take - and make more sense.
(2021-07-14, 11:24 AM)Aussie Mike Wrote: [ -> ]I find contactee 'information' more useful because it details with attitudes and values that make clear sense and are actionable in a more productive way.
(2021-07-14, 11:24 AM)Aussie Mike Wrote: [ -> ]Contactees have a different take - and make more sense.
Mike! Good to see you on the forums.
I'm curious to know what you see as the contactee information and take, and what attitudes and values they represent. In The Phenomenon, the Zimbabwe school children who witnessed a UFO seemed to suggest that the beings from that ship were trying to communicate an environmental message: stop messing up your planet. Is that the sort of thing you have in mind?
On the other hand, we have cattle mutilations and painful procedures without anaesthesia carried out on abductees who are terrified, which perhaps suggest a less compassionate approach. How do we reconcile these sort of acts with a more positive view of the abductors?
(2021-07-14, 11:24 AM)Aussie Mike Wrote: [ -> ]having ET solve our energy issues means we can continue to be assholes to each other and the environment.
I have a casual interest in following the renewable energy scene here in Australia, mostly by dipping in semi-regularly to the
Renew Economy site's feed.
Today, I noticed an ABC news article
Expert says massive green energy hub project in WA 'could power Australia'.
It seems to me then that we are well on our
own way to solving our energy issues.
I take your point that what we
do with the energy matters a great deal, and that a signification part of what we do with our energy is "be assholes to each other and the environment". I wonder, then, whether you think that our gradually solving "the energy problem" ourselves versus having it suddenly solved for us in ET tech is a better path to making less destructive use of our (increasingly renewable) energy resources.