NDE's

Helen M is a registered nurse in Scotland. She posted this experience with her mother on a Youtube comments section and I contacted her to ask permission to publish it here. She very kindly agreed.
Her mother was not a believer in post mortem survival and what occurred was spontaneous and unexpected, including a Peak in Darien encounter with her own deceased daughter.

Hi, my name is Helen, I’m a sixty year old registered nurse from Scotland. In 2008 my mother who was then 80, had gone through major bowel surgery which then became septic afterwards, due to an infection which started in the wound. Her and I discussed death prior to this many times, as I believed there was something after death. 

As a nurse, I had seen things throughout my life to form this opinion. My Dad had died suddenly at only 40 years old from a cardiac arrest and it has recently become obvious to me now that MI's (myocardial infarctions) were probably missed.  I think this maybe fuelled Mum's belief that we die and we're gone and that's it! The November day my father died,  the temperature had suddenly plummeted and snow was falling heavily. 

Mum told me years later that she felt the snow falling was almost like tears (for some reason) and quite concerned, she called his place of work, who then told her he'd felt unwell and was now on his way home. In fact he was actually dead in his car outside the house and was found by a passing policeman. 

Forwarding on from 2008, Mum was very unwell, now in heart failure--basically she was dying. I was closest to her and the doctor asked what her wishes would be regarding resuscitation. My Mum, quite a character always said to me, "Do not let anyone jump on my chest; I don’t want heroics I want to go peacefully!"

The doctor agreed but said he would try CPAP (Continuous positive airway pressure) as a last resort and if it didn’t work, he would help her pass peacefully. Mum being the stubborn wee Glasgow survivor of WW2 did survive. 

It took a couple of days for her to come round, but she said she knew she was dying, because she could see all of her (deceased) family, but off in the shadows almost like silhouettes, except for her own mother who was very clear and standing with her. She said, "Jessie (my mum) you are not coming yet, it is not your time, you must go back!" Mum was pretty amazed, she said to me, "You were right (about life after death) Helen! 

Forward to 2017, Mum was terminally unwell and I knew her time was pretty close. My oldest sister who had been a medical doctor, but who was now in a care facility due to brain injuries (following a catastrophic fall down an escalator some years before) died suddenly in June of that year.  Mum had dementia, she could remember the war and growing up, that kind of thing, but not what happened days or months before. 

She was not used to seeing my sister too frequently.  I managed to get them together as much as possible but I couldn’t do that very often. I decided not to tell Mum that my sister (her daughter) had died, because I knew due to her condition, she would then have to bear that pain (of knowing) daily and as she was dying herself, I thought that was the right (humane) decision. 

Christmas Day 2017. 

I'd slept in a chair beside Mum on the Christmas Eve, as I knew the end was imminent. However, on that Christmas morning, she said she felt better and told me all her family were there (again), all the deceased. She said her sister Charlotte (my Aunty) who had died 9 years previously had sat on the end of her bed all week, and she told my Mum she could have Christmas Day, but then it was time to come with her.  

Suddenly Mum looked puzzled, she said, "Helen (my name) is our Liz dead? My automatic reply immediately was no! She said hmm...Helen, are you telling me the truth?" I lied and said, "Mum, she isn’t dead!" Mum was looking around the room, smiling, totally at peace, but kept looking at my left side. I knew she could see Liz but I didn’t want Mum's last day on earth to be full of heartbreak.

Mum passed away peacefully that night in her sleep. 8 weeks ago my oldest son only 35 years old, my best friend and confidant, was found dead and as yet we have no answers (as to why), but then I knew without a doubt I had done the right thing not telling Mum her first born had died (the pain of it) because I did struggle with that. I just pray they were there to meet my boy and I’m sure in my heart they were. 

I offered my sincere condolences and thanked her (Helen) very much for allowing me to publish it here.

My goodness! The appearance of this forum has changed all of a sudden (for me, that is).
But... it looks great!

Smithy

My goodness! The appearance of this forum has changed all of a sudden (for me, that is).
But... it looks great!

Smithy

Me too !  The format has changed and massively expanded.

Me too !  The format has changed and massively expanded.

@Smithy

At the bottom of the page you can find the 'Theme Selector'. The new default is 'Roundo Light'. You can switch back to the old theme there.

The intention is to better cater for visitors using mobile devices. It is still a work in progress.
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-r...as-default

                                                  NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE(S) IN CASE OF SEVERE OBSTETRICS SHOCK

                                                                                                           Dubravko Habek* & Ingrid Marton 

                                                                           University Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology Clinical Hospital, Zagreb, Croatia,

The 28 - year - old healthy primiparas developed peracute severe postpartum haemorrhage after spontaneous singleton delivery due to atony of the uterus with disseminated intra-vascular coagulopathy and severe obstetric hypovolemic shock IV. degree with loss of consciousness. Just before losing consciousness, she said she would die.

 All resuscitation measureswere promptly taken: endotracheal intubation with assisted breathing and oxygenation, intravascular volume replacement with crystalloids, colloids and blood derivatives with inotropic drugs, atropine, adrenaline, dopamine, dobutamine, and manual exploration and compression of the uterus by an anesthesiologist and two gynecologists and three midwifes. 

Another senior consultant was called in who performed hemostatic sutures and uterine thamponade after which the bleeding stopped and the blood loss was estimated at more than 3500 mL which was consistent with a state of severe OS. Treatment was continued at the intensive care unit with respiratory support, intensive therapy and monitoring. Throughout the resuscitation procedure in the delivery room, the mother was unconscious and was not sedated or anesthetized. Her personal and family history was without psychiatric or religious fanatic data. After two days of treatment in the intensive care unit, in contact with the doctors, she told in detail what happened to her in the delivery room: 

"I saw a bright light and from above I watched all the events that were very dramatic, but I was not embarrassed. I saw my pale body lying with a tube in its mouth and a doctor blowing an artificial respiration balloon; I had bloody legs spread and the floor was covered in blood. Another doctor came, put on an apron, sat between her (my) legs, (and) vigorously pushed large pieces of gauze into her(this woman below--herself in fact) uterus, and said that a hysterectomy on a dying woman should be avoided as much as possible.

 

He asked what the findings were, and the doctor who inflated the balloon said that she was not coagulating and that she was bleeding, that there was no blood pressure or pulse. Nurses and doctors pumped blood and infusions from plastic bags that hung on a stand.

After the bleeding stopped and I was transferred from the delivery room to the ICU transport cart, the whole room was covered with my blood and sheets soaked in blood, and the knowledge of out-of-body experiences disappeared. You are the doctor who saved my life, thank you ! " (telling the doctors) turning to a senior consultant whom she could not see (could not have seen)  because she had already lost consciousness and was intubated

(PDF) Near-Death Experiences in Case of Severe Obstetrics Shock (researchgate.net)

[Ninshub]

Nice find tim!

It's surprising to me to get such an open-minded article in a psychiatric journal.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...rics_Shock

The conclusion:

Certainly there have been NDEs in obstetric cases of cardiac
arrest, obstetric embolisms, severe forms of obstetric shock, or
sudden clinical deaths, but we have not found a similar
description in the literature, and we have not personally had
contact with such experiences in clinical practice. Our review is
a contribution to the obvious existence of this non-delusional
phenomenon in the specific case of the association of severe
obstetric shock IV. degree with insufficient multiorgans and brain
perfusion and NDE. Thus, in fact, the original translation of the
word resuscitation, re + anima (repeated return of the soul or
spiritual spirit according to the ancient medicine of Hippocrates,
especially Galen) will have a realistic interprettation of the
described phenomenon in this case.

                                                  NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE(S) IN CASE OF SEVERE OBSTETRICS SHOCK

                                                                                                           Dubravko Habek* & Ingrid Marton 

                                                                           University Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology Clinical Hospital, Zagreb, Croatia,

The 28 - year - old healthy primiparas developed peracute severe postpartum haemorrhage after spontaneous singleton delivery due to atony of the uterus with disseminated intra-vascular coagulopathy and severe obstetric hypovolemic shock IV. degree with loss of consciousness. Just before losing consciousness, she said she would die.

 All resuscitation measureswere promptly taken: endotracheal intubation with assisted breathing and oxygenation, intravascular volume replacement with crystalloids, colloids and blood derivatives with inotropic drugs, atropine, adrenaline, dopamine, dobutamine, and manual exploration and compression of the uterus by an anesthesiologist and two gynecologists and three midwifes. 

Another senior consultant was called in who performed hemostatic sutures and uterine thamponade after which the bleeding stopped and the blood loss was estimated at more than 3500 mL which was consistent with a state of severe OS. Treatment was continued at the intensive care unit with respiratory support, intensive therapy and monitoring. Throughout the resuscitation procedure in the delivery room, the mother was unconscious and was not sedated or anesthetized. Her personal and family history was without psychiatric or religious fanatic data. After two days of treatment in the intensive care unit, in contact with the doctors, she told in detail what happened to her in the delivery room: 

"I saw a bright light and from above I watched all the events that were very dramatic, but I was not embarrassed. I saw my pale body lying with a tube in its mouth and a doctor blowing an artificial respiration balloon; I had bloody legs spread and the floor was covered in blood. Another doctor came, put on an apron, sat between her (my) legs, (and) vigorously pushed large pieces of gauze into her(this woman below--herself in fact) uterus, and said that a hysterectomy on a dying woman should be avoided as much as possible.

 

He asked what the findings were, and the doctor who inflated the balloon said that she was not coagulating and that she was bleeding, that there was no blood pressure or pulse. Nurses and doctors pumped blood and infusions from plastic bags that hung on a stand.

After the bleeding stopped and I was transferred from the delivery room to the ICU transport cart, the whole room was covered with my blood and sheets soaked in blood, and the knowledge of out-of-body experiences disappeared. You are the doctor who saved my life, thank you ! " (telling the doctors) turning to a senior consultant whom she could not see (could not have seen)  because she had already lost consciousness and was intubated

(PDF) Near-Death Experiences in Case of Severe Obstetrics Shock (researchgate.net)

Reading and digesting this paper was an exercise in deciphering a specialized medical jargon unfamiliar to me. One thing was especially striking - the completely ideologically open-minded position of the paper's authors regarding the likely true nature of this occurence, as probably what it clearly appeared to be from the patient's own description of the experience combined with the medical details. This being an example of the temporary separation from and then rejoining of the spirit to the physical body during extreme trauma to the body and temporary cessation of life processes.

It is amazing that the editors of this journal would have allowed such a conclusion to be published, in the face of the strong prevailing materialist paradigm. A clue to this would probably be that this journal is apparently an obscure Eastern European publication evidently not a part of the rigid materialist groupthink afflicting the mainline American and UK journals. In the very unlikely case that one of the mainline journals would have actually published the paper, it would certainly have been modified at least to carefully tiptoe around such a conclusion, ignoring the independently verified veridical details in the patient account, and faithfully repeating the mantra that (in the minds of the editors) the most likely explanation was hallucination of some sort.

It's surprising to me to get such an open-minded article in a psychiatric journal.

It certainly is, Ian ! I would like sceptics to address this case and advance an explanation? Because it's clearly evidence that her consciousness (mind,psyche, soul, spirit, whatever) separated and continued to function when the brain was disconnected. 

The alternative is that they're lying. In fact it's basically the same as the recent cases from Bettina Peyton and Stephanie Arnold and many others that I don't have to hand.

It is amazing that the editors of this journal would have allowed such a conclusion to be published, in the face of the strong prevailing materialist paradigm. A clue to this would probably be that this journal is apparently an obscure Eastern European publication evidently not a part of the rigid materialist groupthink afflicting the mainline American and UK journals.

I agree, nbtruthman ! It's changing though, slowly. I actually wouldn't want doctors to start interfering too much in these experiences. They really don't need to know all the details (IMHO) anything more than that the patient is not to be treated with anti-psychotic drugs etc. 

They've had a real (in the correct sense of the word) experience, and there's more to the human being than the sum of it's parts. In other words, we are absolutely not just biological robots.

This is a very interesting and satisfying read (from a proponents point of view that is) that I would say reinforces the evidence that near death experiences convince those that have them that there is defintely something else beyond physical existence. Sceptics would probably be better to give it a miss, as on reading the cases studies you may find them challenging to your worldview and you wouldn't want that, I'm sure.

Near-death experiences and the change of worldview in survivors of sudden cardiac arrest: A phenomenological and hermeneutical study by Hans Zingmark and Anetth Granberg-Axèll (on a small sample of survivors of sudden cardiac arrest in Sweden)

This study began out of curiosity after the first author met a patient who spontaneously talked about her experience of a tunnel of light following a sudden cardiac arrest (SCA). She described the light as peaceful and loving, and said that she felt very welcome and had neither anxiety nor fear. The experience changed her view of life and death. She became convinced that life continued after death and said she had no more anxiety around death or dying, illustrating the potential for fundamental changes in a person’s perspective following a near-death experience (NDE)

As  practicing  physicians,  we  wanted  to  know  more  about what NDA patients think about their experiences to better communicate with them and to share our understanding with other healthcare providers.We therefore approach this article from a phenomenological perspective, meaning that we suspend our preconceptions regarding what patients experience in the minutes of  unconsciousness  during  NDEs.  Temporarily  putting  aside our perspectives rooted in medical science, we give full attention to what patients tell us so that we can better understand what they believe about their experiences, trying to see circumstances from their points of view.

The interviews were analyzed with phenomenological hermeneutical method for their lived experiences and the meaning for the view of life and death. Four participants were interviewed 10 weeks after their NDE. Four themes emerged: being on the other side, in another dimension; not dreaming, this is a real experience; being in a non-physical condition without my body; and comparing views of life and death before and after the NDEs. 

The participants described the NDEs as an experience of another realm as non-physical in nature and existing beyond space and time. This study shows that this experience of another state of being, through the lived ex-periences of NDEs, gave the participants an entirely new mean-ing on life and death. To them, death was no longer viewed as an end but a passage into something else and that life continues after death. This realization instantly changed their worldview

The research period was from August 2016 to August 2017. We included SCA patients via initial convenience sampling in an emergency ward of a Swedish hospital. All participants had a confirmed SCA, and they were resus-citated  through  the  use  of  defibrillators.  Defibrillators have a built-in electrocardiogram function that monitors the electrical activity of the heart and is programmed only to function (giving electrical shocks) when there is ven-tricular fibrillation, i.e. electrical disorder and no cardiac contractions (SCA). In that sense, all participants have been declared clinically dead (NB sceptics Aware 1 the case of Mr A) 

Sven experienced an NDE lasting approximately five minutes dur-ing an SCA at his work, and he was resuscitated by his colleagues. He experienced a light that he described as very strong, full of life, and without any evil at all. His impression was that he was standing at the beginning of something, as if on a threshold, as he watched a light all around and in front of him. To him, the experience was also very clear, and he felt calm and without fear. In the distance, he also heard the voices of his colleagues who were resusci-tating him. He felt an enormous resistance against returning to his body. His impression was that his consciousness had experienced another realm, completely different from the current physical world. He said that he did not have many thoughts or firm beliefs about the continuation of life before his NDE experience.

John was the oldest participant at 88 years of age. He had a vivid sense of traveling towards something that he described as "the other side" where the atmosphere was peaceful and very welcoming. He loved the  atmosphere,  and  he  cried  deeply  when  he  described  how it was there. He was also aware of his own body and had a strong feeling of wanting the people who were helping him to stop their resuscitation attempt. He did not want to go back to what he described as “life” again. He wanted to  go  on.

"Yes, I was on the way to death, yes, in that direction. I say that I was going to leave the earthly [realm] and move into all. I was sure of that, yes, the spiritual  world.  Sure...because  I  was  going  toward  something. I was not somehow...dead"

Anders, Bertil, Sven, and John all described their expe-riences during the SCAs as being on route to another place, a kind of alternate reality that they had never experienced before. They described it as a liminal state existing in between the physical world and the world coming after. As Anders said, “I was on the other side and had this experience....” Bertil similarly described the experience in spatial terms, but also as “knowledge”: “Yes, yes clearly, but it is an  experience  of  a  completely  different  realm"

"Then, I  did  not  really understand  where  I  was  because  there were two different worlds. The tunnel I found myself in was more real than the world I came back to. I went from one world [and] back to the normal world again."

"Because I was pretty badly battered when my body laid on the floor, but I had no sense of that with me in that condition. That feeling I am in great danger here...and somehow it is like that. That strikes me actually now.... I should actually, if that feeling.... If that comprehension should be linked to my body, then I should have felt that I have had pain there. Terrible pain because they were pumping quite hard on me. But, on the contrary. I was completely peaceful; it felt totally calming for me."

"My physical body was in the ambulance, all the time. Yes, in one way or another, my consciousness had left the body when I moved into that tunnel.... But, it was still me who was in that tunnel, and it was me who visualized and saw in the tunnel, but my body was left there [in the ambulance]. Mmm, so for me, in that, in what I experienced then, there was not any end...but, if I had continued another few minutes, then I would have seen the end of the tunnel."

This has totally changed my view of what death is. Sure, one maybe has used words like, “if there is any life after death,” without knowing the deeper meaning behind it.... I have lived my whole life thinking that death is something frightening and was  the  end  of  life.  Then  everything  ceases  to  exist, but now, I see it differently. It [life] does not [cease to exist].

"Yes, this experience has changed my view about life, and I can say right away that I am not afraid of death any more, as I was before. Yes, of course there is something there. It must be because how else could it have turned out like this.... But what is it then?"

"This is knowledge. I know this exists...but I was only briefly there, and I cannot return, in my own control.... But definitely, something else exists...which is not this [the physical reality] in any way, and this has changed my view of what happens after this...."

View of Near-death experiences and the change of worldview in survivors of sudden cardiac arrest: A phenomenological and hermeneutical study (pagepressjournals.org)

Edit : "Anders, Bertil, Sven, and John all described their experiences during the SCAs as being on route to another place, a kind of alternate reality that they had never experienced before."

This accords nicely with Parnia's recent paper on the classification of NDE's, at least in regard to the "there" and "back" that is reported.