NDE's

This is a very interesting and satisfying read (from a proponents point of view that is) that I would say reinforces the evidence that near death experiences convince those that have them that there is defintely something else beyond physical existence.

I suspect that everyone here is at some level open to the possibility that their life will continue after death - otherwise why come to this site? For example, I don't go to the flat earth society, except once out of curiosity.

David

I suspect that everyone here is at some level open to the possibility that their life will continue after death

You've never "met" Paul and Malf then David ? Or Sbu, for example? 

otherwise why come to this site?

Because it's irresistible to see foolish believers deluding themselves, I would have thought.

This is a very interesting and satisfying read (from a proponents point of view that is) that I would say reinforces the evidence that near death experiences convince those that have them that there is defintely something else beyond physical existence. Sceptics would probably be better to give it a miss, as on reading the cases studies you may find them challenging to your worldview and you wouldn't want that, I'm sure.

Near-death experiences and the change of worldview in survivors of sudden cardiac arrest: A phenomenological and hermeneutical study by Hans Zingmark and Anetth Granberg-Axèll (on a small sample of survivors of sudden cardiac arrest in Sweden)

This study began out of curiosity after the first author met a patient who spontaneously talked about her experience of a tunnel of light following a sudden cardiac arrest (SCA). She described the light as peaceful and loving, and said that she felt very welcome and had neither anxiety nor fear. The experience changed her view of life and death. She became convinced that life continued after death and said she had no more anxiety around death or dying, illustrating the potential for fundamental changes in a person’s perspective following a near-death experience (NDE)

As  practicing  physicians,  we  wanted  to  know  more  about what NDA patients think about their experiences to better communicate with them and to share our understanding with other healthcare providers.We therefore approach this article from a phenomenological perspective, meaning that we suspend our preconceptions regarding what patients experience in the minutes of  unconsciousness  during  NDEs.  Temporarily  putting  aside our perspectives rooted in medical science, we give full attention to what patients tell us so that we can better understand what they believe about their experiences, trying to see circumstances from their points of view.

The interviews were analyzed with phenomenological hermeneutical method for their lived experiences and the meaning for the view of life and death. Four participants were interviewed 10 weeks after their NDE. Four themes emerged: being on the other side, in another dimension; not dreaming, this is a real experience; being in a non-physical condition without my body; and comparing views of life and death before and after the NDEs. 

The participants described the NDEs as an experience of another realm as non-physical in nature and existing beyond space and time. This study shows that this experience of another state of being, through the lived ex-periences of NDEs, gave the participants an entirely new mean-ing on life and death. To them, death was no longer viewed as an end but a passage into something else and that life continues after death. This realization instantly changed their worldview

The research period was from August 2016 to August 2017. We included SCA patients via initial convenience sampling in an emergency ward of a Swedish hospital. All participants had a confirmed SCA, and they were resus-citated  through  the  use  of  defibrillators.  Defibrillators have a built-in electrocardiogram function that monitors the electrical activity of the heart and is programmed only to function (giving electrical shocks) when there is ven-tricular fibrillation, i.e. electrical disorder and no cardiac contractions (SCA). In that sense, all participants have been declared clinically dead (NB sceptics Aware 1 the case of Mr A) 

Sven experienced an NDE lasting approximately five minutes dur-ing an SCA at his work, and he was resuscitated by his colleagues. He experienced a light that he described as very strong, full of life, and without any evil at all. His impression was that he was standing at the beginning of something, as if on a threshold, as he watched a light all around and in front of him. To him, the experience was also very clear, and he felt calm and without fear. In the distance, he also heard the voices of his colleagues who were resusci-tating him. He felt an enormous resistance against returning to his body. His impression was that his consciousness had experienced another realm, completely different from the current physical world. He said that he did not have many thoughts or firm beliefs about the continuation of life before his NDE experience.

John was the oldest participant at 88 years of age. He had a vivid sense of traveling towards something that he described as "the other side" where the atmosphere was peaceful and very welcoming. He loved the  atmosphere,  and  he  cried  deeply  when  he  described  how it was there. He was also aware of his own body and had a strong feeling of wanting the people who were helping him to stop their resuscitation attempt. He did not want to go back to what he described as “life” again. He wanted to  go  on.

"Yes, I was on the way to death, yes, in that direction. I say that I was going to leave the earthly [realm] and move into all. I was sure of that, yes, the spiritual  world.  Sure...because  I  was  going  toward  something. I was not somehow...dead"

Anders, Bertil, Sven, and John all described their expe-riences during the SCAs as being on route to another place, a kind of alternate reality that they had never experienced before. They described it as a liminal state existing in between the physical world and the world coming after. As Anders said, “I was on the other side and had this experience....” Bertil similarly described the experience in spatial terms, but also as “knowledge”: “Yes, yes clearly, but it is an  experience  of  a  completely  different  realm"

"Then, I  did  not  really understand  where  I  was  because  there were two different worlds. The tunnel I found myself in was more real than the world I came back to. I went from one world [and] back to the normal world again."

"Because I was pretty badly battered when my body laid on the floor, but I had no sense of that with me in that condition. That feeling I am in great danger here...and somehow it is like that. That strikes me actually now.... I should actually, if that feeling.... If that comprehension should be linked to my body, then I should have felt that I have had pain there. Terrible pain because they were pumping quite hard on me. But, on the contrary. I was completely peaceful; it felt totally calming for me."

"My physical body was in the ambulance, all the time. Yes, in one way or another, my consciousness had left the body when I moved into that tunnel.... But, it was still me who was in that tunnel, and it was me who visualized and saw in the tunnel, but my body was left there [in the ambulance]. Mmm, so for me, in that, in what I experienced then, there was not any end...but, if I had continued another few minutes, then I would have seen the end of the tunnel."

This has totally changed my view of what death is. Sure, one maybe has used words like, “if there is any life after death,” without knowing the deeper meaning behind it.... I have lived my whole life thinking that death is something frightening and was  the  end  of  life.  Then  everything  ceases  to  exist, but now, I see it differently. It [life] does not [cease to exist].

"Yes, this experience has changed my view about life, and I can say right away that I am not afraid of death any more, as I was before. Yes, of course there is something there. It must be because how else could it have turned out like this.... But what is it then?"

"This is knowledge. I know this exists...but I was only briefly there, and I cannot return, in my own control.... But definitely, something else exists...which is not this [the physical reality] in any way, and this has changed my view of what happens after this...."

View of Near-death experiences and the change of worldview in survivors of sudden cardiac arrest: A phenomenological and hermeneutical study (pagepressjournals.org)

Edit : "Anders, Bertil, Sven, and John all described their experiences during the SCAs as being on route to another place, a kind of alternate reality that they had never experienced before."

This accords nicely with Parnia's recent paper on the classification of NDE's, at least in regard to the "there" and "back" that is reported.   

Pretty darn awesome study.  Ice certainly feels like its melting a bit!

Pretty darn awesome study.  Ice certainly feels like its melting a bit!

Certainly does, Silence, I agree.

Nice find tim!

It's surprising to me to get such an open-minded article in a psychiatric journal.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...rics_Shock

The article originates from an institution with a long title but ending with,
"School of Medicine, Catholic University of Croatia, Zagreb, Croatia."

Basically the University is affiliated with the Catholic Church. That might explain in part the openness to the initial publication. Acceptance or consideration towards non-materialist phenomenon would be expected.

Pretty darn awesome study.  Ice certainly feels like its melting a bit!

Do I detect that you too have undergone some sort of change of thinking?

David

Do I detect that you too have undergone some sort of change of thinking?

David

Nope.  Exact same worldview on consciousness I've had from the jump.

I just think Trump is a complete fraud and I don't believe every mainstream view is a conspiracy.  That's likely what you've conflated.

The article originates from an institution with a long title but ending with,
"School of Medicine, Catholic University of Croatia, Zagreb, Croatia."

Basically the University is affiliated with the Catholic Church. That might explain in part the openness to the initial publication. Acceptance or consideration towards non-materialist phenomenon would be expected.

You know I really don't think so, Typoz but I might be wrong of course. The Catholic church has no interest in NDE's (not on their radar) as far as I know, but it is true that some clergy are aware of them.

Parnia's new documentary is being released tomorrow (apparently), "Rethinking Death". A British poet named 
Rachel Finch is featured in it (I think) who had an NDE after childbirth and massive blood loss. I wonder if anyone knows where we can watch it ?

"It was every incredible feeling that a person cannot describe. It was an immediate peace – no pain, no fear, no shame. In this moment, I had forgotten what those things were. It was a feeling of love that I had never even imagined to exist before this moment. Enormous love, like I was loved beyond all comprehension, beyond all human understanding. I felt ‘home’. I felt I knew this feeling, this space, but that I had forgotten it. Light filled every space. It was all I could see, feel, hear. I do not recall a form, just light that was brilliant and not at all blinding to look at. I began to merge with the light. I felt I became one with it, until I knew all there was to know."

(Doesn't sound to me like the effect of naturally occuring in the brain endorphins) 

Becoming One: A Near Death Experience - Kindred Spirit Magazine


Edit : If you follow this link it says it premieres on May the 9th, so I'm blowed if I know. 

RETHINKING DEATH; RESTORING LIFE Tickets, Tue, May 9, 2023 at 5:30 PM | Eventbrite

I ffound this by accident but I should have spotted it sooner. It's yet another exceptional veridical NDE case report, this time from Texas neurosurgeon, Guy Danielson, who operated on an undercover woman police officer who'd been shot no less than seven times in the head, by seven different guns, when her cover was blown. Presumably (as they do) the ruthless gang were making sure no individual member could be convicted on their own (if caught) but such behaviour is sadly common place in the world. How on earth anyone could do that to anyone or anyone could actually survive such a catastrophically brutal execution is beyond me.  (I wonder if these people had known about NDE's, would they have done such a thing ? Who knows, that's a complicated question, of course) 

After Guy Danielson's story, Peter Cummings tells us (again) about his NDE and his new understanding/world view which is in fact the theme of this very long video which also features several other interesting guests as well as Zach Bush the host and his own substantial thoughts.  Brains are beautifully complicated but we are not the brain, we are something more (say these three doctors) 

This young woman in her thirties was brought in to Danielson's hospital somehow still with a pulse but absolutely comatose, bleeding profusely (understandably) and he operated on her, although he thought she would certainly die anyway. But amazingly she began to recover against all expectations. 

(The Neurosurgeon) Danielson watched her in the hospital for about two weeks ...and to his surprise and the surprise of the doctors she started to get better and over the course of the next few weeks she started to get better and better and so she ended up actually going home... 

(Dr Danielson) "And er, I lost track of her really, out of sight and out of mind type thing but she did come in for an appointment  about a month or six weeks after surgery and she walked in very chipper and she goes... 

"Hi, Dr D" and I just like... Oh my gosh, I can't believe it and she said well if you can't believe it
then neither can I, and I started asking her questions about how she was feeling and what her (quality of?) life was like
and she was saying that she had very nearly recovered and she was even thinking about trying to go back to work. 

And so, it wasn't a long conversation...and toward...but at the end of it she goes 

"Hey, I want to tell you something...I want to ask you a question." 

And I said, "What about?" 

And she goes (said), "Do you know that while you were doing surgery on me, on my head, I wasn't even in my head.
I was up on the ceiling up in the corner of the room,"...and she pointed up and said, "I was right up in the corner
of that room and I was sitting on a little perch and (I was) looking down on you and I could see you and I could see the patient, (herself) I could see all the nurses, I could see the anaesthesiologist and everybody there 

(Doctor) "And, I'm like... WHAT?" and she said...I said, "Well ...did you, did you, what did you hear ?" 

And she goes, "Well, I heard a lot, I could hear the music going on.."

And I said, "What do you mean you could hear the music?" 

And she said, "Well, you were listening to a song that's about Saturday night and the moon is out, we're going 
to go on over to the twist and shout". And of course that's a song that we used in the OR (listened to) all the time, so that kind of, that baffled me no end and then she said, "And yeah and you were talking to the doctors and the nurses were going, (asking) as time went on, they said, "Is she going to make it? Is she going to make it ?"

I said...jumbles up his words confusing what he wants to say then begins again clarifying

She told me that she heard me tell the nurses that she wasn't going to make it... and ...and then she basically told 
me about several other things that had gone on during the surgery that made me know beyond a shadow of a doubt
....that...we were down doing surgery on her but to her (she) was up in the corner of the room. It's pretty awesome.

This case mirrors many other similar cases, notably the Lloyd Rudy Roberto Catanneo report. I cannot imagine how any
sceptic could seriously try to explain this from a physiological perspective. It even shuts out Max's theory, which I don't regard as being realistic in the first place, but it is novel, one might say.  

Death, Dying & Rebirth Webinar Replay with Dr. Zach Bush - YouTube   case story is introduced and begins at 17.30 aprrox.