Cosmic Cradle: pre-birth memories

[Ninshub]

I'm reading this book that was published quite a few years ago now.



It's a book that looks at pre-birth memories, adults (and children) having retained (or in some cases reconnected to at later stage) memories of life between lives, rather than "merely" past lives. Bernie Siegel wrote the foreword and I think he used to be a Skeptiko forum member.

I find the subject fascinating and having gotten relatively little attention. It's obviously more interesting (to me) than people getting that sort of information, potentially valid though that may be, through regression therapy.

A lot of subjects are interviewed here, some of them having had NDEs as well. There seems to be more icommonalities than differences in the accounts - an obvious one being how the subjects all describe how choosing their parents.

There's an interesting potential veridical component as well, with several subjects being able to inform their parents of a lot of details of what happened when the infant wasn't born yet, sometimes even at the moment of conception, including details of what happened when the parents were having sex! It seems like most of the subjects' memories include what they experienced while in utero.

Recommended.

IANDS has this video from one of the authors' presentations of the book.

Whereas thousands of people have retrieved prebirth memories via rebirthing, hypnosis, and psychoanalysis, a much smaller number naturally recall them. This video shares excerpts from our book Cosmic Cradle, Spiritual Dimensions of Life before Birth of individuals who grew up with memories of a place, a time, or a state of being, before identifying with a physical body.

Prebirth memories not only make for interesting stories, these abilities will change the boundaries of medical and psychological research, and even more importantly, change our understanding of who and what we are.

[Ninshub]

More content available on the facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/CosmicCradle

The perennial problem still presents itself, of what being is it really which makes these choices of parents for the upcoming life. For instance, what about people who are victims of very unfortunate inborn disease conditions caused by genetic defects derived from the parents. Presumably the soul will have knowledge of all the important factors involved in this choice. Did "they" (the person having these apparent between-lives memories) really choose this, and if so, how can they justify it and all its suffering to themselves? Of course, my guess is that none of the cases discussed in the book are like this, perhaps because the actual mechanisms involved are very complex.

[Ninshub]

From what I've read in the book so far, you guess to me seems to be wrong, at least partially. (And for me I don't see any perennial problem, but I think we've been through that before.

There's one case in the book, that of Rennie, who watches three couples having sex on Earth, alongside spirits who are "directors"/teachers. He is told the level of challenge each presents, and Rennie chose the one with the greatest challenges. The guide said "If you go to this family, you will have many trials and tribulations. You will never reach your potential. It will be in the cards to experience frustration". (p. 69).

That's what he chose, for a greater spiritual reward and "wanting to prove himself". He experienced a life with different careers on the "edge of fame" but with others getting the notoriety, and many traumas (getting shot at several times, falling off a bridge, bailing out of a military jet, and major health challenges throughout his life, the latter bringing forth NDEs.)

His detailed memory of his conception was validated by his parents (e.g. his baby sister in the back seat with her arms up with her feet toward the driver side, while the parents were making love in the front seat, stopped on a country road). (p. 73)

That case is followed by that of Lania, who had an extremely abusive mother, and who punished her for having clairvoyant gifts. She says she picked her mother in order to go "through hell", that she needed to "transcend her abuse" and had "come into this life to resolve certain issues and move forward" (p. 77). With this perspective, even though she compares her mother to Hitler, she loves her, and she had a dream in her thirties, after a car accident, when her mother had died 7 years earlier, in which her mother appeared as a radiant being and told her they had set this up in the after(pre)life.

I was struck by a phrase she says about that dream: "Human experience has nothing to do with what is 'real'." (p. 78)

Elizabeth M. Carman & Neil J. Carman, Cosmic Cradle (2013), Berkeley CA: North Atlantic Books .

[Ninshub]

Perusing the Facebook page, I do notice the authors gave this youtube interview also:



The interview does engage in some of nbtruthman's questions and concerns. (They talk about a case of someone who didn't want to incarnate seeing all the problems on Earth. You can listen to hear how that worked out.) (They also go into Rennie's story.)

[Ninshub]

And (speaking of births) Merry Xmas by the way.

From what I've read in the book so far, you guess to me seems to be wrong, at least partially. (And for me I don't see any perennial problem, but I think we've been through that before.

There's one case in the book, that of Rennie, who watches three couples having sex on Earth, alongside spirits who are "directors"/teachers. He is told the level of challenge each presents, and Rennie chose the one with the greatest challenges. The guide said "If you go to this family, you will have many trials and tribulations. You will never reach your potential. It will be in the cards to experience frustration". (p. 69).

That's what he chose, for a greater spiritual reward and "wanting to prove himself". He experienced a life with different careers on the "edge of fame" but with others getting the notoriety, and many traumas (getting shot at several times, falling off a bridge, bailing out of a military jet, and major health challenges throughout his life, the latter bringing forth NDEs.)

His detailed memory of his conception was validated by his parents (e.g. his baby sister in the back seat with her arms up with her feet toward the driver side, while the parents were making love in the front seat, stopped on a country road). (p. 73)

That case is followed by that of Lania, who had an extremely abusive mother, and who punished her for having clairvoyant gifts. She says she picked her mother in order to go "through hell", that she needed to "transcend her abuse" and had "come into this life to resolve certain issues and move forward" (p. 77). With this perspective, even though she compares her mother to Hitler, she loves her, and she had a dream in her thirties, after a car accident, when her mother had died 7 years earlier, in which her mother appeared as a radiant being and told her they had set this up in the after(pre)life.

I was struck by a phrase she says about that dream: "Human experience has nothing to do with what is 'real'." (p. 78)

Elizabeth M. Carman & Neil J. Carman, Cosmic Cradle (2013), Berkeley CA: North Atlantic Books .

This has as you remark already been hashed over here at great length before. I could only again comment that it is obvious that the consciousness of the being making these choices that may have been extremely deleterious to the upcoming new human personality, is vastly advanced over the human personality. I would contend that this advancement is so great that it (the chooser) has many of the characteristics of an entirely separate being, since in some cases it may choose a lifetime of extremely negative circumstances that the upcoming human personality would never conceivably have chosen for itself. This last observation seems indubitably correct; how we interpret this fact in the context of spiritual reality is another matter entirely, as is how we interpret the (from the human perspective) justice or injustice of such a scheme of reality.

And I would disagree with the quoted remark by the experiencer that "Human experience has nothing to do with what is 'real'." Human experience is absolutely all we have, and I think we need to honor it. 

That case is followed by that of Lania, who had an extremely abusive mother, and who punished her for having clairvoyant gifts. She says she picked her mother in order to go "through hell", that she needed to "transcend her abuse" and had "come into this life to resolve certain issues and move forward" (p. 77). With this perspective, even though she compares her mother to Hitler, she loves her, and she had a dream in her thirties, after a car accident, when her mother had died 7 years earlier, in which her mother appeared as a radiant being and told her they had set this up in the after(pre)life.

I was struck by a phrase she says about that dream: "Human experience has nothing to do with what is 'real'." (p. 78)

Elizabeth M. Carman & Neil J. Carman, Cosmic Cradle (2013), Berkeley CA: North Atlantic Books .

Not a subject I’ve explored… but on that last quote… I got told in my STE that nothing that happens here matters, all that matters is that you return…

Jesus in GoT says … Whoever has come to understand the world has found (only) a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world… and elsewhere … Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you… there are plenty more sayings in GoT eluding to this idea.

Hymn of Pearl suggests the problem is getting back, as one forgets, and gets lost while here…

It’s like saying 7 of GoT… whether the challenge consumes one, or whether one consumes the challenge and is able to digest it…

I touched something profound in the Kitchen a couple of years ago… that experience seemed to answer my question so simply… suggesting that the others still bite and scratch each other… and that’s the reason why things are this way. But it was accepted, and perfectly fine to do what is necessary to stay in the world… prepare food, eat, wash, keep warm… these are just fine.

I know that only matching patterns can be shared here… similar understanding to the blind men and the elephant tale… and also Jesus’s remove the plank from your eye first … which suggests why it’s therefore hopeless to judge people (you’ll get it wrong)… But it’s very hard when the others keep scratching and biting, and dropping dog biscuits around to distract you..

Anyway… just ramblings… no conclusions…

Just another I hope brief enough comment on just one example in the vast array of terrible human situations that presumably were chosen by the soul in the between lives period: severe autism spectrum disorder has come to my attention.

From https://www.thinkingautism.org.uk/aggres...ple-cause/:

"In addition to the core symptoms of autism, which include social communication difficulties, restricted interests, and sensory processing difficulties, both children and adults with autism often present with many other ‘autism-related’ symptoms and behaviours. Aggression is one of them.

Aggression in autism can involve severe tantrums, anger, hostility, sudden-onset violent outbursts including self-harm and rage ‘episodes’. Up to 20% of individuals with autism exhibit such violent behaviours. In many cases, aggression involves destruction of property and direct violence towards other people including carers, causing them bodily harm.

Such aggressive behaviours have very negative effects on daily functioning and quality of life of people with autism and their caregivers, and further add to stress and social isolation. Some research suggests that aggression in autism causes carers and teachers greater stress than the core features of autism.

Aggression is associated with more negative outcomes for children with autism and their caregivers, including decreased quality of life, increased stress levels, and reduced availability of educational and social support."

This sort of individual has to be cared for in an institution, not at home. And caregivers can easily burn out and be eventually weakened and die from the stress. Would such an autistic life ever be consciously decided upon and chosen by the human being that would subsequently be forced to live it? I don't think so.

Just another I hope brief enough comment on just one example in the vast array of terrible human situations that presumably were chosen by the soul in the between lives period: severe autism spectrum disorder has come to my attention.

From https://www.thinkingautism.org.uk/aggres...ple-cause/:




This sort of individual has to be cared for in an institution, not at home. And caregivers can easily burn out and be eventually weakened and die from the stress. Would such an autistic life ever be consciously decided upon and chosen by the human being that would subsequently be forced to live it? I don't think so.

Just going off what's being discussed in this thread so far, to me it could also be a case of us simply being too human to understand the motivations of people who pass on. To me, a lot of who we are as people is confined to the environment we find ourselves in, the bodies we live in. If that's suddenly removed and we've gone off to some ethereal place, who is to say that we will think the same way about the horribleness of severe autism? It certainly has disturbing implications, but that might just be the way things are.