(2023-10-05, 10:37 PM)Ninshub Wrote: [ -> ]Here's the documentary.
Why did they take it down? Good Lord these people are insufferably annoying. Everything is always so cagey and secretive with Parnia and his crew. There's an entire online community at this point devoted to interminable debates over the right way to understand the Esoteric Gospel of Parnia.
(2023-10-07, 07:35 PM)RViewer88 Wrote: [ -> ]Why did they take it down? Good Lord these people are insufferably annoying. Everything is always so cagey and secretive with Parnia and his crew. There's an entire online community at this point devoted to interminable debates over the right way to understand the Esoteric Gospel of Parnia.
Just looked into it, apparantly it was supposed to be a free 24 hr preview before they made you have to pay for it. It’s on Parnia lab twitter
(2023-10-07, 07:35 PM)RViewer88 Wrote: [ -> ]Why did they take it down? Good Lord these people are insufferably annoying. Everything is always so cagey and secretive with Parnia and his crew. There's an entire online community at this point devoted to interminable debates over the right way to understand the Esoteric Gospel of Parnia.
This is a concerning development. On the other hand this public interest into their research may help secure additional funding for their projects.
(2023-10-14, 01:56 PM)sbu Wrote: [ -> ]This is a concerning development. On the other hand this public interest into their research may help secure additional funding for their projects.
They allowed access to it for several days which was enough, I would have thought, to at least grab the important information, I know I did. I'm sure it will available again in the near future for anyone who missed it, hopefully.
Sorry, had to delete my post, it's all highlighted with computor codes and other stuff for some reason.
(2023-10-07, 07:35 PM)RViewer88 Wrote: [ -> ]Why did they take it down? Good Lord these people are insufferably annoying. Everything is always so cagey and secretive with Parnia and his crew. There's an entire online community at this point devoted to interminable debates over the right way to understand the Esoteric Gospel of Parnia.
Yeah I'm kinda done with Parnia to be honest, barring some amazing report coming through.
I never liked the study design, seemed kinda clear it was destined to fail and even if 20 people saw the stickers it wouldn't matter...
(2023-11-19, 03:42 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I'm kinda done with Parnia to be honest, barring some amazing report coming through.
I never liked the study design, seemed kinda clear it was destined to fail and even if 20 people saw the stickers it wouldn't matter...
I don't see it as a full failure because it still showed there's zero brain activity correlated with NDEs (despite the fact that parnia did basically have to shove in some "spikes" explanation to appease materialists) and it showed they're not hallucinations, CPR induced consciousness, dreams, or false memories.
(2023-11-19, 03:42 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I'm kinda done with Parnia to be honest, barring some amazing report coming through.
I never liked the study design, seemed kinda clear it was destined to fail and even if 20 people saw the stickers it wouldn't matter...
I know what you mean Sci and you've certianly got a point, but I think he has to go this way (I remember Peter Fenwick saying years ago that
we must get the hit..we must get it)
Even without the hit this is what
Donald Hoffman said :
"The physicalist approach to consciousness which says that brain activity causes consciousness faces a problem with the new empirical results we're getting from resuscitation of patients up to an hour with no brain activity. These patients are routinely reporting very, very clear conscious experiences, seeing a light, a tunnel, life review and so forth and so all the physicalist theories
about how brain activity could cause conscious exxperiences are completely incapable of explaining those conscious experiences"
Lindsey Gurin :
"People frequently come out of an event like that (cardiac arrest) and can describe things that were happening in the room,
can describe vivid experiences and memories that they were having.. and this goes against everything we know about how the brain functions.
In the brainstem there is a pathway that sends impulses up to the brain, consistently sending alertness messages called the ascending reticular activiting system. You have to have that intact to be awake and then in order to experience conscious awareness you also need a variety of higher level brain networks.
In the setting of cardiac arrest where presumably most of those are off line, how are patients having these events? How are patients laying down memories when the memory networks are not working?"
I'll post what Lance Becker said when I can find it.
I suspect many have already seen this letter to the editor from Sam Parnia. It was posted on Aware of Aware (which I don't contribute to anymore after we had a disagreement about the definition of death)
To the editor,
We are grateful for Dr’s Greyson and Van Lommel's comments.
AWARE-II identified a spectrum of covert consciousness and cognitive activity in cardiac arrest patients. First ∼40% of survivors reported a perception of consciousness without explicit recall, while ∼20% reported features consistent with a recalled experience of death (RED) and ∼3% overt visual and auditory awareness. Second, it identified electroencephalography (EEG) based physiological markers compatible with a spectrum of consciousness. These ranged from high frequency beta waves – normally associated with high levels of awakening with conscious thoughts and logical thinking - to alpha and theta, as well as delta waves, which are ordinarily associated with lower degrees of awareness such as during dream states.
Although, survivors with EEG monitoring were among those without explicit memories (due to low survival), however, the absence of explicit recall cannot be assumed to indicate absence of consciousness. This has in part been demonstrated by studies of implicit learning (discussed in the manuscript).
The use of EEG (e.g., bispectral) is an established way to detect and measure the depth of consciousness in comatose patients in the intensive care unit and during surgery. Our study extended this application to detect markers of consciousness in comatose patients undergoing CPR. In view of these data, we respectfully disagree with the suggestion that consciousness had not been present due to the absence of explicit memories.
All EEG data were captured during pulse checks with minimal or absent movement. All artifactual data were removed and EEG waves were interpreted by neurophysiologists based on the American Clinical Neurophysiology Society (ACNS) Standardized Critical Care EEG terminology (2021) protocols as highlighted in the manuscript.
As the study concluded, the identification of brain EEG biomarkers suggestive of lucid consciousness does not indicate brain processes produce the recalled experience of death. The identification of brain correlates of consciousness cannot provide a causative mechanism for any form of conscious experience, The question of consciousness and its relationship with the brain remains one of the biggest mysteries in science. In view of the absence of studies showing any causative mechanism between brain processes and consciousness, both top-down and bottom-up theories have been proposed to account for consciousness (highlighted in the manuscript).
Based on our analyses, we were able to show that the recalled experience of death is unique and different to imaginary experiences such as ordinary dreams, hallucinations, delusions, as well as CPR induced consciousness. We therefore put forth a novel mechanism to account for how this real experience may arise based on the underlying physiological brain processes to death – including disinhibition.
Reply to AWAreness during REsuscitation and EEG activity - Resuscitation (resuscitationjournal.com)
With this speculation about brain activity many tens of minutes into resuscitation, I think Parnia is actually trying to get the big pharmaceuticals on board (think I said this somewhere else so apologies for the repetition) to fund more treatments (drugs) that can be given to patients during resuscitation. Formerly of course, it was assumed the brain cells died and were not viable anymore after five or ten minutes but he says (as we all know now) he's got the evidence that near normal brainwaves appear late into resuscitation. He then hpothesizes that these are markers of consiousness !
I don't know why he thinks he can get away with this, because it doesn't actually make sense as an explanation for NDE's. But then again, without a proposed mechanism of some kind, for how his patients created memories from their period of cardiac arrest (death) he would surely have been accused of being unscientific. I was therefore not too surprised to see the term novel inserted. Novel indeed almost certainly fictional.