(2019-06-13, 08:44 PM)Max_B Wrote: [ -> ]Taking just this part... you don't have any problem playing the radio in the car when you are stopped, or when you are traveling 70mph down the motorway...
We know how radios work. The radio isn't trying to make sense of jumbled up signals, it works because it is built to receive what is sent out at the other end (The transmitter). When the signal gets jumbled up (interfered with) then the radio or the TV programme fails.
(2019-06-13, 08:52 PM)Max_B Wrote: [ -> ]This is a great little easy to understand video... the comments right towards the end about quantum effects are really important...
Right, I watched that, Max, quite interesting. Basically birds are able to migrate by utilising magnetic fields. And then he brings in quantum physics as an explanation for how such weak effects could actually work.
When birds are flying, are their brains functioning ? Patients in cardiac arrest have non functioning brains. Even if, just for a moment, I thought your theory was at all workable (which it isn't) we now have the problem that the brain is switched off.
We also have the problem that patients "see" things from above the ceiling, often down the hall and out into the carpark. They see things on the hospital roof, sometimes from above the earth, Jung even described this before the first space station was launched.
In addition, "doorways" and "tunnels", sometimes with deceased relatives, appear to the "disembodied" in the operating room at the same time as they have a clear view of the operation scene below. Who's projecting that scenario into the patient's brain on the table ?
Then you have the additional problem that the patients also report the transcendental, otherworldly element of NDE's and then somehow they meld the whole lot seamlessly together, somehow selectively forgetting that half of the experience was derived from other people's brains, and half wasn't.
It's the finest Heath Robinson, Max. A much simpler explanation which works so much better is that we have a separate mind that works with the brain but is not produced by it. Much simpler and no need for endless assumptions and suppositions.
Finally, that's what the patients/experiencers themselves, say. Why should we not believe them ?
Max said > (bolded) And here you were just yesterday posting about Brazilian neurologist, Dr Joel Paulo Veiga's experience...
Yes, and ?
He's floating... and read their thoughts (note the plural)…
He didn't actually say he was floating but it doesn't make much difference, he was out of his body, anyway.
" During an NDE, a 5-year-old boy who was suffering from meningitis briefly went into his sisters head and saw the world through her eyes..."
Yes, I've seen that case. Was the sister right next to him, I can't remember. Same thing was reported by George Rodonaia, seeing his wives thoughts. Unfortunately for you, he was miles away, lying in a morgue while she was thinking about who she was going to marry now that he was dead. Does the EM field stretch that far ?
"...A surprising number of people who had their NDEs during infancy or early childhood report that they were adults during their NDEs..."
That's not because they are receiving the EM fields of adults. Just as likely because they would have often been 'adults' (reincarnation) before they came to the earth. (if you accept reincarnation, as I do)
[i]"...It appears that most reports of an NDE OBE that was experienced by a neonate or infant describe the experience from an adult perspective, with the NDEr at the time apparently having fully-developed perception and thought, and retaining memory of the experience, similar to having an adult mind in a childs body..."[/i]
Entirely consistent with my own memories of coming here.
[i]
"...Individuals can also hear people speak by thought transfer or telepathy..."[/i]
Yes. As they do when they communicate in the transcendental environment.
[i]"...During the NDE, some infant and child experiencers observed their nonmaterial form to be as large as an adults. In a number of cases, perception, thought, and memory formation have appeared fully functional during the infant NDE..."[/i]
I prefer not to speculate about the unknowable too much.
The real problem with Max's hypothesis is that it represents just one more desperate attempt to tie these things into materialism. That is why it is promoted. It is also why it is wrong.
For myself, the biggest difficulty, the one I don't have a clear understanding or explanation of, is memory. How does memory work? To what extent is brain function involved in formation of memories? How is brain function involved in recalling memories?
One might expect that if a brain is badly compromised or non-functioning, it would be unable to form memories, and hence be unable to recall anything afterwards. Some NDE accounts seem to reflect this, people describe knowing that they knew, having access to and understanding of everything, any question they ever had could be answered. But they are sadly unable, for the most part, to bring that back into conscious awareness afterwards. But others are able to recall in rich detail, though they may not have the words to describe, to communicate it.
I know Sam Parnia often talks about avoiding damaging the brain, bringing back a whole person, keeping them intact. But I'm not sure to what extent that includes memory. After all, even those of us who are wide awake may have difficulty in recalling things.
Yet on the other hand, there are those with overwhelming memories of previous lifetimes. Sometimes seething just below the surface, just out of reach. But it does sometimes come clearly into focus, especially those recalling the shock, the desperate situations in which they may have lived out their earlier lifetime. Sadly, it is the painful memories which are often the most prominent.
It's a rich topic, one which isn't understood. Memory.
It was interesting reading the exchange between Tim and Max, while I'm not wholly convinced by Max's ideas it's still nice to see how many different opinions there are about NDEs. I'm really Hyped for Parnia's results, even a single hit would shake much of our reasoning about all of this a lot.
Now i'd say we should go back on topic. I heard, maybe on ben's blog, that Parnia was supposed to give another lecture/talk specifically on consciousness during CA, possibly expanding the topics he introduced in that latest video. Anyboody heard something like that?
(2019-06-14, 08:26 AM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]while I'm not holly convinced by Max's ideas
Raf, just to improve your English a bit more (although it's very good already) it's ….while I'm not
wholly convinced.
As to Parnia's next talk, I've no idea.
(2019-06-14, 09:06 AM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Raf, just to improve your English a bit more (although it's very good already) it's ….while I'm not wholly convinced.
As to Parnia's next talk, I've no idea.
It's my keyboard really
I made one bad typo ahah.
Initial promises seems quite daunting:
they will review the impact of recent discoveries related to brain protection strategies, reversing cardiac arrest and death, consciousness, as well as the unraveling of the human experience of cardiac arrest, and transformational experiences of death, with wide ranging implications for everyone in society.
Hope there will be some new facts on the table.