(2019-06-11, 11:31 AM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]https://leapsmag.com/coming-back-from-th...e-fiction/
I have to admit, in this article by Doctor Parnia himself he sounds more sure tha ever about consciousness being detached from the brain. Looking at the words he uses it almosts sounds like he is onto something but can't speak about it right now. There is no mention of the seizures, although the article should be more recent than his conference, and it seems they didn't damage his resolve at all. So, I'd say really good news!
Maybe he has some info not only from AWARE II but from his COOL-like study too that are giving him more evidence and confidence.
Thanks for finding that article. It was an interesting read. One thing I've noticed about Parnia is that his viewpoint, or at least the way in which he presents it, have been very consistent for a long time. He's addressing the ordinary member of the public but also he's speaking to the scientific community too. Though he deals with this stuff every day, it's literally his day job, to others it is unfamiliar territory, even those who are highly educated or skilled in other fields. Hence the need to repeat more or less the same message again and again. As far as the AWARE II study goes, I feel it is steady, small-step at a time process. I don't really expect either setbacks or breakthroughs, just gradual moving forwards.
(2019-06-11, 12:59 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Because of such low numbers, I wonder if Parnia will seek an extension to the study.
Will he need to get 27 member countries to agree to an extension?
(2019-06-11, 02:20 PM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]Will he need to get 27 member countries to agree to an extension?
Please. Some of us come here to escape all that.
(2019-06-11, 02:18 PM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]I don't really expect either setbacks or breakthroughs, just gradual moving forwards.
Me too. It's becoming clear that it's a gargantuan task to do this study. Sceptics I suspect (as they have said) will say we are looking for excuses but that simply isn't the case.
If Parnia does get a hit, however, I'm expecting sceptics to be very creative. I remember Max (not strictly a sceptic) suggesting that unless the security sensors up in the corner of the room have been covered (to stop the reflection of light from the laptop) then that would discount it.
(2019-06-11, 03:15 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Me too. It's becoming clear that it's a gargantuan task to do this study. Sceptics I suspect (as they have said) will say we are looking for excuses but that simply isn't the case.
If Parnia does get a hit, however, I'm expecting sceptics to be very creative. I remember Max (not strictly a sceptic) suggesting that unless the security sensors up in the corner of the room have been covered (to stop the reflection of light from the laptop) then that would discount it.
A friend of mine who is arch-skeptical basically told me that any aspect of NDEs would be irrelevant even with a totally flat EEG as maybe the machinery isn't good enough or you are sensing stuff through your spinal cord, acting a bit like a secondary brain. then everything gets reconstructed once you wake up. So yeah, arch skeptics will never accept an NDE with verified OBE elements even during a clearly flat EEG.
I have reason to believe that his ither study parallel to AWARE II is giving some results: (find it here
https://med.nyu.edu/medicine/pulmonary/r...s#exp-dhca)
"
Conscious Awareness During Deep Hypothermic Circulatory Arrest
In our studies of cardiac arrest and its effects on consciousness, our data led us to hypothesize that higher-quality resuscitation is associated with a higher level of conscious awareness during cardiac arrest and resuscitation, which in turn is associated with improved survival, less severe brain injuries, and a smaller incidence of disorders of consciousness.
A novel way to study consciousness in a setting that biologically mimics clinical death besides cardiac arrest is to study patients undergoing deep hypothermic circulatory arrest (DHCA), a medical technique in which a patient’s temperature is cooled to approximately 20 degrees Celsius (68 degrees Fahrenheit), shutting down blood circulation and major organ function. This approach is often used by surgeons who need to operate on major blood vessels.
Because DHCA biologically mimics clinical death, but is very well controlled, it provides an excellent opportunity to study consciousness and awareness in a population, which unlike cardiac arrest, has a very high survival rate. We are developing new methods to determine what happens to consciousness before, during, and after this shutdown. We are using various technologies including portable EEG, cerebral oximetry, and visual and audio tools to test implicit and explicit learning as well as recall and memory.
This study complements our work in AWARE II, and we anticipate that we will discover exciting new aspects of the human mind."
after all, we have clearly seen that rate of survival is a problem during the AWARE study, and this should makes this issue much less dramatic.
(2019-06-11, 03:25 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]A friend of mine who is arch-skeptical basically told me that any aspect of NDEs would be irrelevant even with a totally flat EEG as maybe the machinery isn't good enough or you are sensing stuff through your spinal cord, acting a bit like a secondary brain. then everything gets reconstructed once you wake up
Your friend is either a completely closed minded denier (sounds like Woerlee) or he is simply talking out of his 'culo'. The known physiology of how the brain works means that after a cardiac arrest, the brain stem stops functioning. Without a functioning brain stem, consciousness is impossible (apparently).
Someone posted this on Ben William's blog. It's a fairly recent interview that contains a contribution from Parnia and he's still saying the same thing. Maybe that indicates that his latest data backs up Aware 1, we can't know, but it seems logical.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/how-late...-1.5119913 go to 7 minutes in.
(2019-06-12, 04:46 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Your friend is either a completely closed minded denier (sounds like Woerlee) or he is simply talking out of his 'culo'. The known physiology of how the brain works means that after a cardiac arrest, the brain stem stops functioning. Without a functioning brain stem, consciousness is impossible (apparently).
He has no hint of medical knowledge, but he is an hardcore atheist and materialist so there is no space of any kind allowed for anything even remotely paranormal. He is a nice person, but sometimes he sounds so cloese minded that it becomes impossible to even mention anything paranormal to him. it's like if his materialism is set in stone.
Also, I appreciat the research on the meaning of "culo"
(2019-06-12, 04:50 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Someone posted this on Ben William's blog. It's a fairly recent interview that contains a contribution from Parnia and he's still saying the same thing. Maybe that indicates that his latest data backs up Aware 1, we can't know, but it seems logical.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/how-late...-1.5119913 go to 7 minutes in.
Doc Parnia looks to be much more open about talking of survival of consciousness during this kind of interviews than during his talks, but I guess it all falls down to the audience. After all, when he is giving his talks in Front of doctors and academics he can't really talk about consciousness without putting his career at risk, he has to be very conservative.
Same reason why he won't tell us if he had any hits before the resolution of his AWARE II, he would be bombarded by questions and other doctors would want to see his study ASAP.
(2019-06-12, 06:55 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]Doc Parnia looks to be much more open about talking of survival of consciousness during this kind of interviews than during his talks, but I guess it all falls down to the audience. After all, when he is giving his talks in Front of doctors and academics he can't really talk about consciousness without putting his career at risk, he has to be very conservative.
We must be thankful that doctors and academics don't know how to use the Internet.