(2021-01-11, 05:57 AM)Smaw Wrote: [ -> ]In relation to what Radin has said, there's definitely a lot of scientists who are a lot more human than they're willing to let on. People who are potentially enthusiastic about these topics but don't show it, just look at all the views of Radin's research like what was pointed out on the PSI Encyclopedia. Like even among our rogue's gallery of skeptics you see a hint of your regular person shine through every so often. Stuff like Michael Shermer and his radio story, or even the fact that Richard Dawkins is scared of haunted houses. I feel like it's just such an us vs them (or maybe sometimes a perceived science vs religion) dynamic that we don't get to see the best of either side shine through.
Like I saw a conversation from Anil Seth the other day talking about the Surviving Death Documentary and while he's a total prick for a good chunk of it you can tell that he definitely wants to know how NDE's supposedly work via brains for the benefit of everyone.
The philosopher Iris Murdoch once said that we should ask of any philosopher,
"What's he afraid of?"
I think this also goes for the Anil Seths of the world.
(2021-01-21, 02:28 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ](alerted to this via the Aware blog) Is it a recent 'crumb' (from Parnia) or something older?
“What we’ve learned is that, yes, when we come close to death, we seem to have these transcendental and mystical — whatever you want to call it — experiences…. They’re not consistent with delusions; they’re not consistent with hallucinations,” Parnia said.
Beyond 'Surviving Death': The real science of near-death experiences | Business, Energy, Science and Technology News (koliasa.com)
I will say that article put me off straight away with that awful opening paragraph:
Quote:A new Netflix series claims to prove there is. But in doing so, the series relies on a confusing mishmash of fully debunked phenomena alongside matters of faith that aren’t in the realm of science, as well as questions that science truly hasn’t answered yet.
The new Netflix series did not claim to give definitive proof, and much of the phenomena has not been 'fully debunked' in its entirety. Some typical sensationalism about DMT as well.
Quote:“What we’ve learned is that, yes, when we come close to death, we seem to have these transcendental and mystical — whatever you want to call it — experiences…. They’re not consistent with delusions; they’re not consistent with hallucinations,” Parnia said. He said the findings suggest that consciousness may be more complex than experts thought.
So besides this contradicting their previous statements about DMT, I am too wondering if this is recent. Interesting to see that he didn't participate in the documentary as well because of the ghosts/mediumship stuff...or so they claim. LiveScience have published sensationalist nonsense about Parnia and NDEs many times. I don't find them very credible at all now.
Also amusing how it completely
glosses over ignores the reincarnation stuff, the veridical NDEs, the ADCs and doesn't even mention Greyson or Fenwick. Looks like yet another 'review' of only the first episodes from someone not familiar with parapsychology at all.
Edit: This article has helped me realise though that nearly all of LiveScience's articles on stuff like this read exactly the same way, with exaggerated claims, cherry-picking, random references, half-truths, assumptions and plain ignorance.
(2021-01-21, 04:44 PM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]I thought it was mostly referencing the results of the original AWARE study, but the article linked in your post mentions this (from 2019) which I don't recall seeing before, and it relates to the AWARE II study:
Abstract 387: Awareness and Cognitive Activity During Cardiac Arrest
Originally published 11 Nov 2019
Yes, we did discuss that "poster" on here somewhere, Typoz as I remember. That was not much more than 'crumbs' either, but
kind of intriguing nonetheless.
(2021-01-11, 05:57 AM)Smaw Wrote: [ -> ]Like I saw a conversation from Anil Seth the other day talking about the Surviving Death Documentary and while he's a total prick for a good chunk of it you can tell that he definitely wants to know how NDE's supposedly work via brains for the benefit of everyone.
For those curious, you can find said conversation here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/anilkseth/sta...1968485381
Basically, anyone who thinks there is a non-physicalist explanation for them is 'unreasonable', we can stimulate OBEs (he should know better than this frankly, given that NDEs are not at all reducible to just OBEs), suggestibility is somehow a factor, and DMT is somewhat similar.
As a researcher, he frankly should know better, since it doesn't take long to find refutations to every one of his points from those who research NDEs regularly. It impressed me how the commenters on his thread were more knowledgeable and, frankly, more respectful than Seth was.
Especially since when someone mentioned the work of Parnia himself, including the Aware study published after Seth's article, Seth just sidestepped it. He ignored the mentions of veridical perception as well. The other commenters were very neutral surprisingly. It was Seth's responses that were remarkably ignorant and misinformed.
He seemed to ignore the rest of the following comments, including some that pointed out his own flawed reasoning and ignorance of aspects of NDEs. Honestly I'm willing to bet he didn't pay attention given his blatant bias and belief that he was right anyways. Seems he didn't listen to his commenter that noted how they should be 'open to opposing evidence'.
And he has a book coming out in September now. Great.
I think skeptics are making a mistake leaning too hard on the DMT explanation, seeing as DMT is the "spirit molecule" associated with shamanic visions, OBEs, Psi enhancement, etc.
I mean the neurobiologist
Galimore who's doing a lot of work trying to make DMT trips extended via some kind of drip flow mechanism thinks the whole universe is some kind of Simulation video game.
Radin from what I understand is waiting for drug scheduling reform so he can try to do more research into the Psi enhancement aspect, and I assume Strassman is hoping to do more research beyond his original 90s stuff that helped kick off the DMT/Ayahuasca popularization in the Western World.
And what happens when DMT is used in therapy sessions, and suddenly the reports of the Harlequin go up by the thousands?
Much like their overly forceful antagonism toward consciousness theories that invoke quantum biology, I think this is gonna embarrass [the skeptics] and further hurt their credibility. [Not that the public cares much about them, going by even more than likely fake mediums getting TV shows.]
But then they say never stop your enemy from making a fool of themselves...
This is from October 2019, just before the outbreak of the pandemic, which would of course have brought a complete stop to all the research. Some nice photographs of Parnia and his colleagues indicative of the importance being given to this subject of NDE's or ADE's as Parnia now prefers. Rather than failure, I see grounds for great optimism; a clearer field of play without the constant (often negative) input from competing sources trying to influence the debate.
This meeting led to the identification of the major challenges in studying NDEs. The main challenge is a lack of a proper definition for the term Near-Death Experience, which in and of itself has led to the improper use of the term in various contexts, for example, drug-induced experiences and experiences with no real proximity to death.
Moreover, the generic terminology used in describing features of these experiences to date has led to an inaccurate use of the NDE scale. Other challenges are a low number of CA survivors that could be studied, survivor memory loss or fragmentation after recovering, and survivors incorporating their own personal interpretations when describing their experience.
Our meeting demonstrated the imperative need for creating a new definition and scale that will classify and identify true Near-Death Experiences. Additionally, the Critical Care and Resuscitation Program is consistently collecting and analyzing data to advance the accuracy of a scale that will identify cardiac arrest survivors who experienced perceived memories or experiences at the time of cardiac arrest.
Further collaboration with some of the greatest experts in medicine and psychology are needed to create a valid and reliable definition and scale.
Parnia Lab Investigator Meeting | NYU Langone Health
Thanks for bringing this to our collective attention, Tim. I recall in the past that Parnia had a twitter page but it seemed to be updated only quite infrequently.
It looks to me as though these instagram posts on the
nyugsom_ccrs page are laying the groundwork, a kind of setting the stage for - hopefully - something more detailed to come soon.
I noticed the interesting phrase "third phase"
Quote:We are now making plans to move into the third phase of this study. Stay tuned for more...
I was wondering, has Parnia's team now coined another new acronym RED (recalled experience of death) or was this previously in use?
Actually I can understand his aversion to the term NDE since it is often used (BBC is one place) in other contexts, almost as a way of diluting or distracting from this subject area.
[ I wish it wasn't instagram, one of the most irritating sites ever. Even when posts are public, it keeps asking me to log in (I can't, don't have an account, nor do I intend to). ]