Video on recent findings about brain waves at or near time of death

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This is a 9 minute video clip discussing recent findings regarding brain activity at or near the time of death. It is nothing that has not been discussed before, but I thought i would post the clip and see if anyone had any responses or feedback. 

https://aeon.co/videos/death-is-a-trip-h...xperiences
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Thanks Bill,

The rather flippant discussion seems to assume that beyond the experiences of the NDE lies oblivion. To me this is inconsistent with the fact that a few people experience much longer NDE's - I'm not sure what the record is.
(This post was last modified: 2022-06-30, 07:37 PM by David001. Edited 1 time in total.)
No disrespect to you, Bill but it's bereft of facts and balance, biased, histrionic and infantile. Maybe that's the result they wanted? The presenter looks like the kind of guy that might want to swing for you (get angry) if you said anything.
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(2022-06-29, 09:06 PM)Bill37 Wrote: This is a 9 minute video clip discussing recent findings regarding brain activity at or near the time of death. It is nothing that has not been discussed before, but I thought i would post the clip and see if anyone had any responses or feedback. 

https://aeon.co/videos/death-is-a-trip-h...xperiences

DMT experiences do mimic some of the phenomenology of spiritual experiences, but not the most important features of NDEs, such as reaching a barrier or border/point of no return, encountering deceased or religious spirits, and a life review. And most importantly, DMT doesn't produce the strong aftereffect of a permanent and positive spiritual transformation of personality (in fact DMT aftereffects if any are generally the opposite). "In the great majority of cases, NDEs are powerfully transformative experiences. After them, a person's values and attitude toward life are completely transformed. People often become less materialistic and more altruistic, less self-oriented and more compassionate. They often feel a new sense of purpose, and their relationships become more authentic and intimate. They report becoming more sensitive to beauty and more appreciative of everyday things. They also typically report a loss of the fear of death" (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...es-and-dmt).

And last but not least, DMT doesn't produce the most telling evidence, veridical features of NDEs. The DMT theory is materialist neuroscience's last gasp. In fact it's a "theory" that fails right at the outset because most of the data contradict it.
(This post was last modified: 2022-06-30, 09:32 PM by nbtruthman. Edited 3 times in total.)
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(2022-06-30, 09:21 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: And last but not least, DMT doesn't produce the most telling evidence, veridical features of NDEs. The DMT theory is materialist neuroscience's last gasp. In fact it's a "theory" that fails right at the outset because most of the data contradict it.

I don't believe it's been studied extensively, but IIRC shamans utilizing DMT via ayahuasca do have veridical reports? Of course the materialists wouldn't want to get into any of that.

Also, I think Strassman himself is someone whose had a life altering experience with DMT?

One thing I do think is interesting is that in some DMT trips the entities encountered are somewhat surprised to see human "visitors". I don't know if this has happened in an NDE?
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


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(2022-07-30, 10:36 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: I don't believe it's been studied extensively, but IIRC shamans utilizing DMT via ayahuasca do have veridical reports? Of course the materialists wouldn't want to get into any of that.

Also, I think Strassman himself is someone whose had a life altering experience with DMT?

I take to heart what Taylor says in that article nbtruthman referenced, including the studies purporting that transformativeness is greater in NDEs across the board, but this recent article indicates data that potentially gives some support to the points you bring up, Sci.

Quote:Intriguingly, a recent study of DMT inhalation suggests that of individuals who have entity encounter experiences, around 96% and 72% contest that these entities are conscious and intelligent, and continue to exist after the effects of the drug have worn off, respectively (Cott & Rock, 2008; Davis, Clifton et al., 2020). This is an unusual statistic for a drug-induced hallucination because in other circumstances hallucinations are more frequently determined to have been non-veridical creations of the mind and in no way real. Furthermore, many people report the entity encounter experience as being more real than everyday waking consciousness (Davis, Clifton et al., 2020). DMT occasioned entity encounters have been associated with reduced atheistic attitudes, with a majority of people having DMT-induced entity experiences reporting that the encounter catalysed long-term alterations in perceptions of the functioning of reality (Davis, Clifton et al., 2020). Entity encounters are often associated with increased life satisfaction and meaning; however, in a study by Davis, Clifton et al. (2020) it was found that DMT-induced entity encounters were statistically significantly less likely (p < 0.001) to be associated with positive enduring effects compared to merging with ‘God/ultimate reality’ (as in a classic mystical experience) when compared to results of a similar study (Davis, Clifton et al., 2020; Griffiths et al., 2019).

N,N-dimethyltryptamine and Amazonian ayahuasca plant medicine
Human Psychopharmacology, February 17, 2022
Edward James, Joachim Keppler, Thomas L Robertshaw, Ben Sessa

The Davis & Clifton 2020 article that's referenced can be read here.
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(2022-07-30, 10:51 PM)Ninshub Wrote: I take to heart what Taylor says in that article nbtruthman referenced, including the studies purporting that transformativeness is greater in NDEs across the board, but this recent article indicates data that potentially gives some support to the points you bring up, Sci.


N,N-dimethyltryptamine and Amazonian ayahuasca plant medicine
Human Psychopharmacology, February 17, 2022
Edward James, Joachim Keppler, Thomas L Robertshaw, Ben Sessa

The Davis & Clifton 2020 article that's referenced can be read here.

Strassman notes one case of a woman, "Cassandra", whose DMT trips allowed her to come to terms with a past assault and experience intimacy again.

The trips involve interaction with the "clowns"/"harlequins" and something like McKenna's "machine elves" who for whatever reason seem to be encountered by many DMT users. Some excerpts:

Quote:...There was a crazy circus sideshow -just extravagant. It's hard to describe. They looked like Jokers. They were almost performing for me. They were funny looking, bells on their hats, big noses. However, I had the feeling they could turn on me, a little less than completely friendly...

Quote:...I definitely felt the presence of others.They were kind to me, nice and caring. They seemed small, as if they could enter my body and mind in that space. There was a total sense of losing mybody, but the little presences know how to enter it somehow...

Quote:...On DMT I saw and felt myself as a good person, as loved by the DMT elves. There was a sense of many visitors. They were jovial, and they had a great time giving me the experience of being loved. With each dose there was more and more of a fulfilling safe and comfortable familiar feeling...

Re-reading these bits now I'm not 100% if the the clowns and the elves are the same entities. But regardless I think it shows there are positive DMT experiences that can be life altering though they do seem different than NDEs, and that trying to dismiss NDEs as mere "drug trips" is silly. But I'd also say trying to dismiss DMT experiences as mere "drug trips" explicable in materialist terms is also folly.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


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(2022-07-30, 10:36 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: One thing I do think is interesting is that in some DMT trips the entities encountered are somewhat surprised to see human "visitors". I don't know if this has happened in an NDE?

In Western NDEs at least, the beings encountered mostly tend to be either some sort of guide or alternatively, deceased human relatives. In one or two cases I think the deceased humans have been very surprised to see the person having the NDE. My interpretation is that there is some sort of rough timetable or plan as to when each of us is expected to exit this life, and just turning up unexpectedly can result in a surprise. Usually the response is a very rapid "shooing" of the person away, telling them to go back.

That contrasts with other NDEs where the person may have a bit of a guided tour or a longer interaction with whoever they meet. Particularly when a person is told, it's ok if you'd like to stay, the choice is yours - but have you forgotten your newborn baby who needs you? And so they are not always told to go back, but this sort of reminder results in them coming back here anyway.
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Leaving aside many more differences, as I understand it, DMT "trips" occur inside the brain, whereas NDE's occur 'outside', without brain function. Furthermore, now we have the new definitions, is not this DMT theory now effectively 'dumped' forever ? I honestly can't see any mileage left in it; you take DMT, you have an experience but what has that got to do with actually dying.
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(2022-07-31, 11:01 AM)Typoz Wrote: but have you forgotten your newborn baby who needs you?

They seem to know everything, don't they. No big deal for them over in the control room where the plans are up on the wall, but of course it is for us. 

I saw a rather interesting account from a woman who had a heart attack and then cardiac arrest in hospital on the night of the Zeebrugge disaster (the car ferry that overturned in 1987). As I remember she was on a trolley waiting to go into the cath lab. She was watching (probably more like seeing but not paying much attention as she was very ill) the events of the night on the television monitor up on the wall of the emergency department.

Suddenly her heart stopped (she didn't know that of course) and she found herself in a bright tunnel going towards brilliant light (the classic I suppose). Many other people were with her in the tunnel, rushing past her to get to the light and she just knew where they'd come from (the ferry). As they all rushed past her, they had no hesitation and disappeared through to the other side, but she was waved back the other way (think it was waved or told) and returned to her body.

The point is that the souls of the passengers on the ferry obviously knew that it was their time to go, no going back, but the patient on the trolley WAS going back because she was going to be defibrillated. The 'control room' (of course there surely is no such room but whatever controls everything knew all this). This woman was a very sober type, very sincere and not at all flaky, I thought it was a remarkable account and also giving some hope to those affected by these terrible events that keep occurring (and always will). Are we all playing a predestined 'part' that we broadly agreed to before we arrived.  If so, then there are an awful lot of problems with that, who takes the part of the bad guy.

Edit: The woman told her story on "Kilroy" a British mid morning talk show in the nineties. Here is a short description from a link.
 
Concert pianist Annette Servadei suffered a heart attack on the same night as the Zeebrugge ferry disaster in 1987.

A TV set in casualty was showing the tragedy and, after losing consciousness, Annette found herself standing in a tunnel, but could still see people in the water with their spirits leaving their bodies. They were heading towards a light above them, but Annette was told by a male voice it wasn't her time to go, before she woke up again.

Are deathbed out of body experiences a glimpse of the afterlife or just dreams? - Daily Record
(This post was last modified: 2022-08-17, 10:09 AM by tim. Edited 5 times in total.)
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