Happy fourth board anniversary

I don't know what is going on over there. At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite and also going off topic, (because I had been a part of the problem) the quality has went down pretty sharply over time over there.

And so I feel I must apologise to those who I asked to get banned for a while (I know Silence is here!). Malf, well, I guess you are a good troll at times! I don't know what I was thinking though. I think immediately after, I felt that was wrong, and I took some time to think about what was going on and who really was being the unreasonable one. 

Over the past few months I've done a bit of introspection and realised that I was caught in some paranoid worldview, and I was mired down in conspiracies. I think what done it for me was the inability for others whom I conversed with or involved with, to change their mind once new data came in. And then also seeing others get progressively nuttier, or encountering people nuttier than I was at the time, given free reign without challenge to push their views. 

The COVID thing totally ruined my mind though, I'll admit. I'm still processing it. I still don't know what's going on with it, but I am way less inclined to follow the conspiracy crowd. Because it was a traumatic event for the entire world, being stuck at home with nothing else to do, all of this stuff really became overwhelming, and so I flocked to ideas of 'this is really it', the illuminati are real etc etc. It shone a light on my paranoid tendencies over time. Again, I think when new data came in, it began to sway me. And then seeing others just double down for no reason at all. I still think that it was not the right thing to do, to lock down people with fear and propaganda. Who knows, maybe in the future we will all be able to have some hindsight and be able to tell if it was right or not.

Anyway, self pitying confession over lol and back ontopic! 

Do you think you will spend more time here David? I think I will!

This is so encouraging because I was beginning to believe that people who get sucked in never come out again. I was one of those banned from Skeptiko because I was too critical of the direction it was heading. I was offered my membership back if I would apologise to Alex. Not a chance! Instead, I joined the others who started this forum and don't regret it for a moment.

I don't know what is going on over there. At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite and also going off topic, (because I had been a part of the problem) the quality has went down pretty sharply over time over there.

And so I feel I must apologise to those who I asked to get banned for a while (I know Silence is here!). Malf, well, I guess you are a good troll at times! I don't know what I was thinking though. I think immediately after, I felt that was wrong, and I took some time to think about what was going on and who really was being the unreasonable one. 

Over the past few months I've done a bit of introspection and realised that I was caught in some paranoid worldview, and I was mired down in conspiracies. I think what done it for me was the inability for others whom I conversed with or involved with, to change their mind once new data came in. And then also seeing others get progressively nuttier, or encountering people nuttier than I was at the time, given free reign without challenge to push their views. 

The COVID thing totally ruined my mind though, I'll admit. I'm still processing it. I still don't know what's going on with it, but I am way less inclined to follow the conspiracy crowd. Because it was a traumatic event for the entire world, being stuck at home with nothing else to do, all of this stuff really became overwhelming, and so I flocked to ideas of 'this is really it', the illuminati are real etc etc. It shone a light on my paranoid tendencies over time. Again, I think when new data came in, it began to sway me. And then seeing others just double down for no reason at all. I still think that it was not the right thing to do, to lock down people with fear and propaganda. Who knows, maybe in the future we will all be able to have some hindsight and be able to tell if it was right or not.

Anyway, self pitying confession over lol and back ontopic! 

Do you think you will spend more time here David? I think I will!

I would not say my political views have changed much, but I think I have seen the folly of letting other subjects, particularly controversial ones, drown out the main raison d'etre of a forum.

The problem is, of course, that everything is linked to everything else - cooking is related to health, which is related to the politics of trying to clamp down on certain foods, and also to psychic healers........

A forum can't be about everything.

In one sense Alex's obsession with evil and its connection with spiritual matters had a point, but those discussions had almost no overlap with the questions that interest me, and presumably interest most people here.

Yes, I have made this forum my home for psychic things, and just pop into Skeptiko now and again to see what is going on.

David

It's congratulations from me!  It's no small achievement to keep things going and I've been a member on a number of websites that have completely disappeared after a few years or just become like the Marie Celeste. 

It's interesting - perhaps? - that I've popped in at this point because over on the website where I'm janitor I began searching only today to find out how many years our site had been around.  Somewhere between 10 and 11 years is my best guess because we have had issues along the way and I reckon we may have lost the very earliest postings.  

I've been a member there for almost 10 years which is quite a surprise as I'm not the kind of person who sticks at things long-term.  Or at least that's what I used to think.....  

I’m so happy this forum exists. Skeptiko is completely unrecognizable from it’s former 2011 self in my opinion.

This is so encouraging because I was beginning to believe that people who get sucked in never come out again. I was one of those banned from Skeptiko because I was too critical of the direction it was heading. I was offered my membership back if I would apologise to Alex. Not a chance! Instead, I joined the others who started this forum and don't regret it for a moment.

The apology thing makes me smile now, but yeah I had a pretty harsh reply to that offer.

I think Alex ultimately was on his own journey, and still is. I wish him well and don't harbor any ill-will towards him.

If anything it's too bad we never met up physically when we were both living in CA, I think a face-to-face would've been way more productive/interesting than faceless online talk.

I think Alex ultimately was on his own journey, and still is. I wish him well and don't harbor any ill-will towards him.

Bah, I think this is too charitable and I'm probably wrong-headed about that.

He put himself out there.  He created a community for people to come share in the journey.  There is an ethical accountability that stems from that IMO.  Sure, its his ball and he can take it and go home anytime he wants.  Yet, those of us who are parents would likely guide our children to only take said ball and go home if they were being mistreated.

He wasn't being mistreated.  He just took his ball and went home.

It was, and remains, childish IMO.

Bah, I think this is too charitable and I'm probably wrong-headed about that.

He put himself out there.  He created a community for people to come share in the journey.  There is an ethical accountability that stems from that IMO.  Sure, its his ball and he can take it and go home anytime he wants.  Yet, those of us who are parents would likely guide our children to only take said ball and go home if they were being mistreated.

He wasn't being mistreated.  He just took his ball and went home.

It was, and remains, childish IMO.

Ah, I go back to the old chestnut, "Sometimes forgiveness is just the acceptance that the past cannot be changed."

I don't agree with all his decisions, but at the least some of those decisions enabled Psience Quest to be born?

The apology thing makes me smile now, but yeah I had a pretty harsh reply to that offer.

I think Alex ultimately was on his own journey, and still is. I wish him well and don't harbor any ill-will towards him.

If anything it's too bad we never met up physically when we were both living in CA, I think a face-to-face would've been way more productive/interesting than faceless online talk.

I also wish him well - no ill-feeling. I didn't appreciate the demand for an apology manly because the criticism was valid and not just coming from me. If he wanted to go off into those area instead of the subjects which drew me to Skeptiko years earlier, then it was his right to do so. When I disagree with someone and their response is "apologise or leave" then I leave. I know that several of our regulars visit Skeptiko often but I don't. The magic has gone and what replaced it is too distasteful for me to even go there and look.

Alex did some good work in exposing pseudo-skepticism and I agreed with a lot of his talking points. When politics enters the mix I get uneasy. I know that there is a feeling among some proponents (both at Skeptiko and here) that because we disagree with scientists on some things (psychic phenomena, spirituality, etc.) then we should extend that to denying the validity of all manner of scientific research. That's definitely not where I am. My spirituality is not religious, not political and not anti-science. I wish that more scientists would listen to those serious scientists who have done top-notch research such as Parnia, Fenwick, Greyson and Ian Stevenson. 

An illustration of the difficulty in separating these areas is apparent in something someone said to me recently. I had attended a vaccination clinic for my Covid shot and this person expressed surprise that I had accepted the need for a shot. He knows my views on spirituality and associates that with anti-science so assumed that I would be anti-vaccination (and a climate change denier and some kind of fundamentalist religious believer and politically right wing). Because my views on spirituality were diametrically opposed to his atheist/materialist beliefs, he assumed that the rest came as a package. I've seen inklings of that same assumption on the Skeptiko forum and even here. That's exactly why I have opted out of access to the politics and conspiracy theory sub-forums here.

I also wish him well - no ill-feeling. I didn't appreciate the demand for an apology manly because the criticism was valid and not just coming from me. If he wanted to go off into those area instead of the subjects which drew me to Skeptiko years earlier, then it was his right to do so. When I disagree with someone and their response is "apologise or leave" then I leave. I know that several of our regulars visit Skeptiko often but I don't. The magic has gone and what replaced it is too distasteful for me to even go there and look.

Oh I still disagree with the idea I owed him an apology. And I've little stomach for political talk or conspiracy theories.

I just feel no personal animosity toward Alex though i[f] we met in person I'd much rather discuss our points of agreement. Same if I met Malf for a pint.

Oh I still disagree with the idea I owed him an apology. And I've little stomach for political talk or conspiracy theories.

I just feel no personal animosity toward Alex though i[f] we met in person I'd much rather discuss our points of agreement. Same if I met Malf for a pint.

Quite. I've had some friendly chats with malf as he also lives here in New Zealand. It would be interesting to talk to Alex in person although I get the impression that I wouldn't get the chance to say much if his interviews are indicators. I get flustered when I'm badgered.