Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

I think this is the translated version:
https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1mario_d_nde.html

Thanks, Typoz !

I'm not sure how old or recent this interview with Dr Jeff Long is but for anyone who hasn't seen it, it's worth a look if you're interested in the general questions surrounding NDE's. (Naturally, some of the questions enter territory that some will not be comfortable with)

A lot of people with a medical or scientific background, like me, are very persuaded by people who have had near-death experiences while under general anesthesia. Under adequate general anesthesia, they’re very carefully monitoring heart respiration—in fact, it’s artificially controlled in many operations because you literally shut the brain down to the point where the brain can’t simultaneously breathe.

And so the person needs to be artificially ventilated. When their heart stops, i.e., when they code, and they’re under general anesthesia, it’s extremely well-documented that they have no brain activity—yet, when these people have an out-of-body experience, what they report of what goes on during codes is what really happens

It’s much easier for scientists to try to grasp onto what we call material explanations for evidence—and obviously, there’s no material or physical brain explanation that could account for all of this. I think part of it is they want to draw the unfamiliar to what is familiar to them, and they have a lot of confidence in science, which is a great thing.

https://goop.com/wellness/spirituality/1...-us-dying/

NB : There's a mistake near the end of the interview. 

Kevin Nelson, a neurologist, will see rapid eye movement or random trusions = (REM intrusion)

Following on from that, this is the case of an Italian advertising executive, Mario Dalla Torre Schio, who after a very serious head on car crash, experienced a profound NDE during which he met his deceased Grandmother, who made him go back to his body.

More interestingly, during his 'out of body experience' when he was observing the medical staff working on him (his 'dead' body) he saw one of the doctors "manipulating" or "manhandling" him in a manner which he found objectionable (for whatever reason). This doctor was particularly "distinctive" but (to Dalla Torre) clearly not in a positive way. 

When he awoke from his coma, he wanted to know where this particular doctor was, that had manhandled him, only to hear that he had actually died five years previously. Although I find this type of report hard to accept, Dalla Torre appears to be sincere and I have heard of this type of curious occurrence before. 

Probably about the tenth time I've read this, and I find it hard to accept too! Like you I'm not calling him a liar but it is bewildering. 
The real curious detail is the fact this "doctor" was tending to him while the other doctors considered him to be clinically dead, and was administering a "blue light" all over his body. 
I've heard other NDErs say the deceased are interacting with this world on a regular basis in ways we don't even realize. Could this doctor he saw who had passed away have been caring for him beyond the grave? Because everything else he saw was happening in real time and was definitely a "veridical" experience, and the doctor he saw wasn't a fictional figure. He was apparently able to readily identify who it was in a picture

Probably about the tenth time I've read this, and I find it hard to accept too! Like you I'm not calling him a liar but it is bewildering. 
The real curious detail is the fact this "doctor" was tending to him while the other doctors considered him to be clinically dead, and was administering a "blue light" all over his body. 
I've heard other NDErs say the deceased are interacting with this world on a regular basis in ways we don't even realize. Could this doctor he saw who had passed away have been caring for him beyond the grave? Because everything else he saw was happening in real time and was definitely a "veridical" experience, and the doctor he saw wasn't a fictional figure. He was apparently able to readily identify who it was in a picture

This is territory I prefer not to get into because it's plainly unapproachable. However, I can't see why a man like Dalla Torre would invent something like this or even how he could invent it. The story must be correct (even if it's a hallucinatory coincidence which is probably what our resident sceptics would say) because he's been heavily featured on the Italian media and he would have surely been called out (by the hospital medics) by now.

These things do seem to happen, though; if you recall Dr Lloyd Rudy and the presence in the operating room, that coincided with the stopping of the patient's bleeding. It might come under the term "miraculous healing" (whatever that is) but then you have the problem of absurdity and why doesn't everybody receive the same treatment ? etc etc

It might simply be the property of an (as yet) unknowable metaphysical reality. If we are indeed "dualistic" beings temporarily residing in a physical body (which I believe) then it's not beyond imagination that certain abilities could exist? Sorry I can't be of more help, Desperado.

This is territory I prefer not to get into because it's plainly unapproachable. However, I can't see why a man like Dalla Torre would invent something like this or even how he could invent it. The story must be correct (even if it's a hallucinatory coincidence which is probably what our resident sceptics would say) because he's been heavily featured on the Italian media and he would have surely been called out (by the hospital medics) by now.

These things do seem to happen, though; if you recall Dr Lloyd Rudy and the presence in the operating room, that coincided with the stopping of the patient's bleeding. It might come under the term "miraculous healing" (whatever that is) but then you have the problem of absurdity and why doesn't everybody receive the same treatment ? etc etc

It might simply be the property of an (as yet) unknowable metaphysical reality. If we are indeed "dualistic" beings temporarily residing in a physical body (which I believe) then it's not beyond imagination that certain abilities could exist? Sorry I can't be of more help, Desperado.

Don't worry about it, tim. Its hard to explain something we don't understand past that it might be a part of metaphysical reality. That's where my mind is taking me but it's neither here nor there now. It doesn't really help or hurt the case, or NDEs in general. Interesting story all the way

His account doesn't remotely surprise me given all the stuff with time weirdness I've run into developing magic. To be honest this is far more expected than unexpected and speaks to the instability issues I've run into in my efforts.

I think this Jeffrey Mishlove interview with Pim Van Lommel can go here? (if not I'll shift it)  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruXn8FHGe7s  

A bit longer interview would have been even better but many thanks to Dr Mishlove for getting it !

This is a fine location for the video tim. I've also posted it to our repository of worthwhile videos, the NDE Multimedia Resources Thread:

https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-n...7#pid27107

That thread was designed in part for users who'd already seen mention of a video elsewhere on the site, but cannot recall the location, and who would just like to watch it without having to wade through pages of text first. Naturally, I also gave you credit for the first posting of the video to PQ. It's a most welcome addition to our growing catalog!

[To eliminate confusion after moving this post to the commentary thread: Obiwan was responding to this post of tim's --Laird]

This “scientific confirmation” thing makes me smile. What exactly do they mean by it?  Some of the foremost scientists of their day have investigated the subject and concluded there is evidence to support survival. It’s curious that those who are so adamantly opposed often don’t seem to have actually researched the subject other than to criticise the efforts of those who have or,  more often, cut and paste the opinions of those who haven’t carried out much (if any) research.

This “scientific confirmation” thing makes me smile. What exactly do they mean by it?  Some of the foremost scientists of their day have investigated the subject and concluded there is evidence to support survival. It’s curious that those who are so adamantly opposed often don’t seem to have actually researched the subject other than to criticise the efforts of those who have or,  more often, cut and paste the opinions of those who haven’t carried out any much (if any) research.

Couldn't agree more, Obiwan!

After several visits, he eventually plucked up the courage to talk to her and tell her about his experience. She was shocked (understandably). Evelynne A (her name) elaborates.

"When René regained consciousness at the hospital on Sunday, I was at Antalya airport in Turkey at the same time (12.30), waiting for my suitcase in the airport building. Suddenly someone touched my shoulder, and when I turned around, René, whom I only knew fleetingly, was behind me. At the same time a woman's voice whispered to me: "He has arrived."

So it appears that Herr Volken simultaneously saw the doppleganger of his future companion ( Frau Evelynne A) while she similarly  saw 'his' (doppleganger) at the airport.

I'm curious about where that first-person narrative by Evelynne A comes from. In the video it just seems to be Rene Volken recounting her story.

(Edit. I see now with the help of Google Translate that it comes from the newspaper article.)