Aware II results

Anyone interested in the scientific investigation of NDEs should check out the awareofaware blog for links and comments. Not surprisingly the new Aware study indicates a materialistic explanation for NDEs as it is becoming increasingly clear that there`s in fact lots of brain activity during the CAs:

“Consciousness and awareness may occur during CA. The recommencement of near-normal/normal EEG may reflect a resumption of network-level of neuronal and cognitive activity, a biomarker of reported lucidity/consciousness, and recalled experiences of death (“near-death” experiences).”

What's not surprising is some sceptics (I don't mean you) are already drawing that conclusion. I wonder why. However, the new Aware study does not indicate a materialistic explanation for NDE's, just the opposite, in fact. We knew they had detected
some brainwaves during CPR back in 2019. It's clearly because of the intense resuscitation methods they routinely utilise to try to reverse death. However, CPR does not return patients to consciousness except in exceptional circumstances (they've told us that). And in the majority of cardiac arrest cases, the EEG remains flat even with CPR and without CPR, always flat after 10-20 seconds. (they've also told us that in previous papers which I don't have to hand but can find) 

Until Parnia himself details these spikes (I've seen the abstract and another piece) I'm not going to comment, other than to say, they only have 2 files (EEG files) for the whole 28 interviewed. The rest are from patients who died for good (which most did) so we won't know what those may have overlapped with or not. 

The study was severely hampered by low recruitment and the very small number of interviews and then in addition to that, it quite understandably looks like Covid put a stop to it for a period, as well. Also, the language Parnia has used might sound to some materialistic but that's only because there is no model for consciousness without a brain. He has had to couch it in terms acceptable to mainstream science. (alluding to but not really meaning, some level of brain activity)

They had 6 recalled experiences of death, 2 patients heard something (one heard the stimuli) and one had an OBE or EVA (external visual awareness as they now call it)   

Obviously, in order to show that NDE's occur when the EEG is flat, they would need the files (flat EEG file) to be from someone hearing or seeing something during a reported NDE or a recalled experience of death. We don't know yet if they have those, even though they've said they have (alluded to it, anyway) 

If on the other hand you want to make the case for NDE's being the result of brain activity, they would have to match a file (with EEG spikes) to a recalled experience of death. That still would not mean that the NDE is conclusively caused caused by brain activity but it would allow sceptics to assume that it is. 

The problem for sceptics is that the researchers clearly believe that these experiences are occuring when the patients are actually dead. That's why they've classified them uniquely as recalled experiences of death.  All of these patients were in cardiac arrest (dead) for more than five minutes and they should not be experiencing anything, let alone the ultra lucid and hyper real experiences that they do, including visual awareness.

To make a case for a recalled experience of death (with visual awareness in addition) being the result of normal brain activity, or near normal brain activity, you would in effect be referring to CPR induced consciousness (CPRIC) which is very rare around 1% or so of patients (approx) and is very unpleasant and scary. Nothing like the peace of joy of an NDE. In other words, it doesn't match up.

And it also doesn't sound like the researchers believe that, either, unless I'm reading them wrong.

"Parnia told me the new name was meant to reflect the authors’ belief that near-death experiences actually happen after someone is dead. “What we’re saying is science is showing you that death is not the end that we thought,” Parnia said. “It’s almost like a new, uncharted, unexplored territory.”

 The Afterlife Is in Our Heads - Nautilus

Some more comments from Parnia. If there is a sceptic on here that can explain to me how these statements favour a materialistic explanation, I would be sincerely interested to 'hear' it. Even if you (as a die hard sceptic) insist that all this still means when you're dead, that's it, I doubt very much you will actually believe that when it happens to you.    

"Many patients recalled that while the resuscitation was happening, there was a "perception of separating," in which the patient had a visual awareness of the medical team administering CPR. Parnia said these people also recognized that they had died during this experience. People also experienced a perception of traveling to a destination that felt like home, or somewhere they belonged that drew them in, according to Parnia.

"It's a purposeful, meaningful re-evaluation of every aspect with a focus on morality and ethics and how they conducted themselves. It's really quite bizarre," he said.
One of the most fascinating discoveries, according to Parnia, is that a person's consciousness doesn't die when the body dies.

Near-Death Experiences Cause Rare Out-Of-Body Phenomenon, New Study Finds (newsweek.com)

"Survivors reported having unique lucid experiences, including a perception of separation from the body, observing events without pain or distress, and a meaningful evaluation of life, including of their actions, intentions and thoughts toward others. The researchers found these experiences of death to be different from hallucinations, delusions, illusions, dreams or CPR-induced consciousness.

"Our results offer evidence that while on the brink of death and in a coma, people undergo a unique inner conscious experience, including awareness without distress."

Lucid dying: Patients recall death experiences during CPR: Detection of rhythmic brain waves suggestive of near-death experiences -- ScienceDaily

 Also, the language Parnia has used might sound to some materialistic but that's only because there is no model for consciousness without a brain. He has had to couch it in terms acceptable to mainstream science. (alluding to but not really meaning, some level of brain activity)

Tim,  that was a very well written post.  And I most strongly endorse the comment that the lack of a basic process model is holding back the whole discovery process, especially in terms of the scientific method.

But, in terms of data - there is over-whelming evidence that life, awareness and organic consciousness are exhibited in the 1st billion years or more when living organisms acted and experienced their environments without brains.

If consciousness is defined as self-aware biological information processing, brains play a role of upgrading the information flow with a additional level of important feedback.  Single-cell organisms process vast amount of biological information.

Anyone interested in the scientific investigation of NDEs should check out the awareofaware blog for links and comments. Not surprisingly the new Aware study indicates a materialistic explanation for NDEs as it is becoming increasingly clear that there`s in fact lots of brain activity during the CAs:

“Consciousness and awareness may occur during CA. The recommencement of near-normal/normal EEG may reflect a resumption of network-level of neuronal and cognitive activity, a biomarker of reported lucidity/consciousness, and recalled experiences of death (“near-death” experiences).”

Brains ain't isolated, everyday experience is a shared process, we *know* this from huge numbers of anomalous human experiences that we give labels to, depending on the relationship between the experient, and the experience. Everyday, people get access to experiences which *cannot* be their own. It works in exactly the same way as we get access to experiences which *are* our own.

Was there a reason for not including the blog post?

And what's the pig study mentioned?

Was there a reason for not including the blog post?

And what's the pig study mentioned?

Thanks for the useful link.

As for the pig study, this is the only one which comes to mind:
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-p...9#pid27459
and here
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-e...out-a-body

As for the pig study, this is the only one which comes to mind:
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-p...9#pid27459
and here
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-e...out-a-body

Studies like this are of interest to medical scientists studying how long after death it might be possible to bring a physical body back into full life. That is Dr Parnia's field. It is not so directly of interest to those who study consciousness as it doesn't shed much or any light on the nature of consciousness and its relationship to the body.

Just to cross-pollinate threads, since this was shared in the NDE section: sure doesn't sound like Parnia's been persuaded to lean into materialistic reasoning:
 

Thanks for the useful link.

As for the pig study, this is the only one which comes to mind:
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-p...9#pid27459
and here
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-e...out-a-body

It seems I was mistaken. There is a more recent publication on a connected topic involving pigs.
Source = Parnia Lab @nyugsom_ccrs on Instagram.
   

Scientists have viewed death as a black and white for the greater part of our history, but recent findings suggest we may need to rethink the permanence of death. A paper just released in Nature journal demonstrates that cell function across several organs can be restored in pigs up to one hour post-mortem. Showing that cells in mammalian organs (including humans) do not die immediately after death, these findings challenge the notion that death is irreversible. By contrast, scientifically, death is a biological process that remains treatable and reversible for hours after it has occured. As advances in scientific research allow us to consider the application of systems like OrganEx in humans, which may lead to future possibilities for increased organ transplantation and even resuscitation.

Link to the abstract published in Nature.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05016-1