Is the human self nonexistent?

234 Replies, 13659 Views

(2022-10-03, 12:48 AM)nbtruthman Wrote: I strongly disagree about the value of rationality or rational thought. The laws of thought are fundamental axiomatic rules on which rational discourse itself is often considered to be based. Laws of thought are rules that apply without exception to any subject matter of thought. These laws of logical thought, of reasoning, are the law of identity (everything is identical to itself) , the law of contradiction (no thing having a given quality also has the negative of that quality), and the law of excluded middle (every thing either has a given quality or has the negative of that quality).

If these laws aren't followed, the sequence of thoughts are incoherent and meaningless.
An outright attack aimed at the secure core of information science.  Evidence of structural relations having outcomes in reality - that are fixed - is proven by logical outcomes being real and natural.  Guess what, logic works predictably and as proof -- look at modern computation.  Logic has been found to be a natural outcome of quantum processes.  (citation avail if curious - by the way, Anton Z. just won the Nobel)

Modern information science has a very pragmatic and cohesive handle on all these issues.  There are logical configurations that handle real-world circumstances with excluded middles. (see S. Kauffman)  Same with identity.

Quote: In first-order logic, identity (or equality) is represented as a two-place predicate, or relation, =. Identity is a relation on individuals. It is not a relation between propositions, and is not concerned with the meaning of propositions, nor with equivocation. The law of identity can be expressed as, where x is a variable ranging over the domain of all individuals. In logic, there are various different ways identity can be handled. In first-order logic with identity, identity is treated as a logical constant and its axioms are part of the logic itself. Under this convention, the law of identity is a logical truth.

In first-order logic without identity, identity is treated as an interpretable predicate and its axioms are supplied by the theory. This allows a broader equivalence relation to be used that may allow a = b to be satisfied by distinct individuals a and b. Under this convention, a model is said to be normal when no distinct individuals a and b satisfy a = b.

One example of a logic that rejects or restricts the law of identity in this way is Schrödinger logic.
wiki

If you fear logic relations are flawed for you in your personal environment, then reality has gotten away with you.
(This post was last modified: 2022-10-06, 12:47 PM by stephenw. Edited 1 time in total.)
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Messages In This Thread
Is the human self nonexistent? - by nbtruthman - 2022-09-02, 04:38 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-02, 07:09 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-03, 12:25 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-09-04, 01:54 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-04, 02:17 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-09-04, 02:40 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-09-04, 08:31 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Durward - 2022-09-03, 04:57 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Raimo - 2022-09-03, 12:37 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-03, 01:09 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Raimo - 2022-09-03, 07:59 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-03, 02:08 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-03, 04:03 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Valmar - 2022-09-06, 12:21 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-09-03, 10:53 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-04, 02:54 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-04, 05:08 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-05, 12:49 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-05, 04:44 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-05, 11:54 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-05, 09:22 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-06, 09:28 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-06, 03:33 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-06, 03:52 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Valmar - 2022-09-06, 12:33 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-04, 03:02 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-04, 03:51 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-04, 03:56 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-04, 04:01 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Durward - 2022-09-04, 04:54 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-04, 05:05 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-04, 05:15 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-04, 05:30 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-04, 05:41 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by stephenw - 2022-09-06, 08:53 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-04, 05:10 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-04, 06:23 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-04, 06:36 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-04, 06:40 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Durward - 2022-09-04, 06:49 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-04, 06:38 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-04, 06:46 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-05, 12:44 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Durward - 2022-09-05, 11:41 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Durward - 2022-09-05, 12:09 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-05, 11:22 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Durward - 2022-09-05, 06:32 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-06, 09:49 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-06, 10:26 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-09-06, 11:50 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-06, 12:15 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-09-06, 12:27 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-06, 02:11 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-06, 03:30 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-07, 05:46 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-06, 03:44 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-07, 05:18 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-06, 04:49 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-07, 02:30 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by stephenw - 2022-09-07, 07:42 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-07, 03:07 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-07, 11:50 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-08, 02:26 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-08, 03:17 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-08, 01:19 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-01, 06:47 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-08, 03:55 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-08, 04:02 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-08, 01:56 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-08, 02:24 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-09, 01:10 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Durward - 2022-09-09, 06:12 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-09, 08:23 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-09, 09:21 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-09, 11:14 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-09, 11:37 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-10, 12:13 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-10, 12:20 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-10, 12:19 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-10, 12:37 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-10, 05:41 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-10, 07:13 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-10, 07:41 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-21, 03:01 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-21, 03:23 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-21, 03:36 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-21, 05:02 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-21, 12:37 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-09-21, 09:19 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-21, 02:48 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-22, 02:17 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Valmar - 2022-09-22, 08:18 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-22, 12:59 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Silence - 2022-09-22, 02:29 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-22, 02:58 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Silence - 2022-09-22, 05:56 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-22, 06:56 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by stephenw - 2022-09-22, 08:28 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-22, 05:17 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-22, 04:02 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-22, 09:51 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-22, 11:47 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-23, 01:47 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Valmar - 2022-09-22, 08:34 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-21, 02:54 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by stephenw - 2022-09-21, 07:21 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-21, 05:12 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-09-22, 09:20 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-22, 08:58 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Laird - 2022-09-23, 01:27 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-25, 02:35 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-25, 07:05 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-09-25, 09:10 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-09-26, 04:24 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by David001 - 2022-09-26, 07:03 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by David001 - 2022-09-26, 10:13 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by David001 - 2022-09-27, 08:04 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Valmar - 2022-09-27, 06:24 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Valmar - 2022-09-27, 12:33 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by stephenw - 2022-09-27, 06:38 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by stephenw - 2022-09-27, 01:19 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-27, 01:50 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-24, 02:35 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by David001 - 2022-09-25, 07:11 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-09-28, 11:53 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Raimo - 2022-09-28, 02:45 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-29, 12:13 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Raimo - 2022-09-29, 07:27 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-29, 11:46 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-09-29, 12:16 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by David001 - 2022-09-29, 02:53 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Valmar - 2022-09-29, 03:42 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-09-30, 06:57 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-10-01, 08:36 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-01, 06:28 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Valmar - 2022-10-02, 02:35 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Valmar - 2022-10-02, 09:12 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Raimo - 2022-09-29, 06:44 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-01, 10:42 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-01, 02:25 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-01, 05:53 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-01, 06:37 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-01, 06:59 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-02, 01:42 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-02, 01:46 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-02, 02:05 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-02, 02:00 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-02, 02:44 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-01, 07:15 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-01, 07:29 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-01, 07:32 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by David001 - 2022-10-01, 10:58 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-02, 02:37 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-02, 03:01 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-10-02, 02:17 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Typoz - 2022-10-02, 06:19 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-02, 11:25 AM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-02, 01:46 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by stephenw - 2022-10-06, 12:45 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by stephenw - 2022-10-07, 01:19 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-02, 01:50 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by Ninshub - 2022-10-02, 02:10 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-02, 02:23 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-02, 06:05 PM
RE: Is the human self nonexistent? - by tim - 2022-10-03, 11:42 AM

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