(2022-04-08, 11:10 PM)David001 Wrote: The problem is that I only recognise two kinds of information:I have resisted the usual knee-jerk response for me. Retreat to the safety of published thinkers to make a point. Instead, here is how I arrived at the IR perspective.
1) Shannon information - which isn't a useful concept here.
2) Information that had been generated - directly or indirectly - by a mind, human, animal, alien or spiritual. I simply do not accept that information exists in any other way.
The only obvious apparent exception to case 2, is the information encoded in DNA, and maybe other biological molecules. However, as you know, I think that this has been generated by a mind of some sort.
Persuade me that information of another sort exists, and we might be talking, alternatively try discarding that idea and see how the world seems then.
David
Information, both as Shannon info and as meaning, are real because they successfully model natural events. This is symmetrical to physical sciences, where the interaction of materials and energy model natural events. Physical science is balanced by a working understanding of the role of information. Communications in nature are as important to science understanding as are mechanics.
Abstract
The scope of the development of physical objects is ahead of the scientific development of information objects, in the cultural view. Electronic devices have surely changed somewhat that perception, as information is streaming at a rate never seen. A balanced and open-minded view gives both information and physical science equal roles - each with distinct laws, equations and units of measure.
Matter and energy are concepts that are integrated, even being integrated in mathematical expressions. Informational Realism - for me - is the simple idea that Shannon information and its structures are matching as a category to materials science. And further; the activity and outcome-based view of physics works for observing mind-enforced meanings in actual behavior.
This is the otta-the-box claim, that real-world meanings are being imported and manipulated by mind and are predictable like the activity of energy.
The further claim is made that mind exists- as simply the concept of information processing whose output changes the inner and outer information associated with an agent. Therefore mind is a set of measurable variables.
I would be ontologically committed to this model of natural biology. But that is just personal. This model of mind is pragmatic and ice-cold, as a heuristic method The objective nature of outcomes and the math underlying real-world probabilities makes it computational. The hope is that the reification in science analysis is removed while containing concepts that have subjective meaning. The fundamentals of matter, energy, Shannon info and real-world meanings generate relations and variables that accurately connect the past, present and future with predictable outcomes. The key process to be mapped is understanding.