Psience Quest

(2017-09-25, 12:58 AM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]You sure? You think the choice of the word "unkind" is fair?

May as well shut this forum down now for fear of people being so unkind as to point out inconsistencies one way or the other. This conversation has become bizarre.

I think it's a fair enough opinion for Chuck to hold. I don't necessarily endorse it, but I can see how a person could fairly hold it.

Only I know my motives and they were certainly not malicious. I happen to have some sympathy for Brian - sometimes forums can seem pretty heartless places but I'm in the process of learning that not everyone who disagrees with me hates me. I can also be inconsistent and I would expect to have that pointed out if one statement went counter to a position I had been strongly maintaining. It can sting a little when that happens and sometimes I also feel like just jumping out of the fray and leaving it to those with thicker skins. As I said, I've done so in the past but have come back again. I'm sure that Brian will do likewise.

(2017-09-25, 01:15 AM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ] I happen to have some sympathy for Brian - sometimes forums can seem pretty heartless places but I'm in the process of learning that not everyone who disagrees with me hates me.

Forgive my incredulity Kamarling, but do you really mean to use the word 'hate'? There are friends of mine that have beliefs that I very strongly disagree with, but the word hate is one that I just can never see me using to describe how I feel about them. Even people that I see as doing evil deeds, like Jihadi John, or Jimmy Saville, I really don't think I hate anyone. This probably sounds very 'righteous', it isn't meant to be. 

I have recently been thinking a lot about my own weaknesses, wondering how I should or might act or think when someone I know does something I disapprove of, or wouldn't do myself. Should we ignore 'bad behaviour' as we see it? 

To be honest I can only ever see me using such a word to express strong dislike of an inanimate object, in a light hearted way, "I hate that colour" or "I hate these bloody new shoes" or the taste of something I dislike or suchlike. I might say, in the heat of the moment, "I hate that guy!" when watching someone that stirs emotion, like some politicians, or to give an example where I might use the word; The Fu-fighters were being interviewed last week on the BBC breakfast show, talking about meeting Prince Harry shortly before going on stage. One of them expressed how tired he felt, as they'd very recently 'got off a plane'. Harry suddenly and totally unexpectedly slapped him across the cheek! Waking him up, or something.

I hated this act!!!Still do, it raises my hackles. I though I liked Harry, this changed my opinion. 

They made light of the slap, as some might expect. Just young guys together having a laugh, but I could write a lot about this. I won't, but it must tell me something about myself. I feel the emotion again now, writing about it. This is about as good an example of me hating something as I can think of.

Sorry for the off topic, I found this really interesting. Thanks K.

(2017-09-25, 08:45 AM)Stan Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]Forgive my incredulity Kamarling, but do you really mean to use the word 'hate'? There are friends of mine that have beliefs that I very strongly disagree with, but the word hate is one that I just can never see me using to describe how I feel about them.

No, of course I don't mean it literally. Just being sloppy with my vocabulary. As we both know, interactions can be misinterpreted and become heated. Sometimes I might sense anger where there is none. Sometimes I might react to a perceived insult that was never intended. But, no, the word hate wasn't meant literally.

(2017-09-25, 08:45 AM)Stan Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]I see as doing evil deeds, like Jihadi John, or Jimmy Saville, I really don't think I hate anyone.

I used to be the same until I moved into a bedsit between two people who were beating, raping and mentally abusing their partners.  I learned from that that I am not beyond hatred.  I even said to one of them, as I was convinced my feelings were against God, "I'll see you in Hell!"  Truth is that no matter what your general morals are, you may find exceptions to them.  In my book, Pssst is an exception because he has no wish to listen to other people - he would rather continue to behave as though he were an authority on everything.  I didn't deserve to be brought up on that, end of story.  You can try and justify your motives all you like Kamarling but you posted what you posted to have a dig.   I am grateful for any genuine support I have got but it is not enough - not by a long shot - besides which, words are easy and I will soon be forgotten. 

I have left a few posts up in threads for the sake of continuity but in most, the continuity will have to come from people quoting me.  It's highly doubtful I'll be back.

I thought the purpose of this forum was discussion? I guess pointing out contradiction could be done in an unkind way but not doing it isn’t helping anyone as far as I can see. Someone else pointing out seeming contradictions (as long as they’re relevant) politely is a good way to reassess what we think and learn isn’t? In fact it’s the point of debate isn’t it?

The debate here has been, generally, pretty polite really (though there have been exceptions) by online discussion standards as far as I can see.

If I really can’t stand being challenged (and some days I’m not in the mood for it) then I don’t post, or wait until I am.

(2017-09-25, 09:05 AM)Brian Wrote: [ -> ]I used to be the same until I moved into a bedsit between two people who were beating, raping and mentally abusing their partners.  I learned from that that I am not beyond hatred.  I even said to one of them, as I was convinced my feelings were against God, "I'll see you in Hell!"  Truth is that no matter what your general morals are, you may find exceptions to them.  In my book, Pssst is an exception because he has no wish to listen to other people - he would rather continue to behave as though he were an authority on everything.  I didn't deserve to be brought up on that, end of story.  You can try and justify your motives all you like Kamarling but you posted what you posted to have a dig.   I am grateful for any genuine support I have got but it is not enough - not by a long shot - besides which, words are easy and I will soon be forgotten. 

I have left a few posts up in threads for the sake of continuity but in most, the continuity will have to come from people quoting me.  It's highly doubtful I'll be back.

THE END

Brian

You are probably right, maybe I just haven't experienced the 'right' circumstances. However I think even then, we have to balance our hatred with our compassion. Maybe I've just had it easy? Long may I continue to be so lucky! 

It's really interesting that you have fallen out with Kamarling, as he's the same person that I recently had a spat with, but I think my spat was for different, but related, reasons. In fact, it is quite ironic!  I would say that we are all involved in this game of 'trying to get on', while balancing our feelings, our actions and our reactions, while all the time trying to get a satisfactory outcome for everyone involved, for some, for others, such things don't matter.

Now, for this next paragraph Brian, assume that it's my ego talking, not the real me! Can you try doing that?
To be honest, your actions are the kind that I sort of 'hate most'....  For some reason, I can't stand it when people 'get offended' by others posts. I find it very frustrating when they find someone else's opinion about something that I find to be relatively mundane, to be what they get worked up to hell about. It may be different if we were talking about things that really mattered, such as 'rape' or 'murder' or 'torture' or something. I want to say "grow the fuck up!"   Maybe it's because I've had a life changing experience that I feel this way, that I now feel life is too short to be worrying about things like this. 

I've probably been guilty of rampant hypocrisy writing that, but hey ho! 

My stroke has been the key to my growth, it really has. Before I was basically head down in the trough, never really thinking about stuff like this, but it sure woke me the hell up!

Psst maybe arrogant, annoy the hell out of you, whatever. Kamarling too. They are very different individuals. Both of them I find frustrating occasionally, but at the same time, I have seen pearls of wisdom from them both. Learn to look for the pearls of wisdom, in my opinion these come direct from 'the heart of God', and somehow bypass the ego, which, as we all know, talks a load of bollocks!

If needs be, use 'ignore', if you can't, ask yourself why not.

I hope that you are not too offended by this post, it's only meant to help by saying that we're all in this same boat trying our best.

(2017-09-25, 12:58 AM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]You sure? You think the choice of the word "unkind" is fair?

May as well shut this forum down now for fear of people being so unkind as to point out inconsistencies one way or the other. This conversation has become bizarre.

I think I really meant ignorant, not unkind. I didn't have much time to post and I'd been working on a house all weekend.

I think it is ignorant when one expects consistency from human interaction, especially on an internet forum where people are using language to try and formulate ideas about the nature of reality. And also especially surrounding interactions with other people. As in the recent case, someone may espouse open-ness and inclusiveness at one hour and then the next go off on a rant about someone whose point of view is pissing them off. Those two ideas may be inconsistent relative to each other, but they certainly aren't inconsistent given the nature of human psychology.

I think it is a matter of let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Adding that I use ignorance in a value neutral manner.

I rather think the term 'ignorant' is more open to misinterpretation than 'unkind'.

Perhaps its a cultural thing, but to me it sounds rather more derogatory than the original wording.

At rock bottom this is a discussion forum and I have myself advocated that in reality, thick skins are required. As Tim so eloquently points out, much of what is espoused here is pure opinion. And other people's opinions can stink sometimes.

I don't think anyone should censor what they say. I'm perfectly fine with people racking up someone else's posts and saying, LOL--Look how fucking inconsistent you are!

I'm not in any way saying that was a wrong or improper thing to do. This forum will only be interesting as people actually interact. And people will come and people will go. My efforts to support Brian and to try and encourage him to possibly come back eventually are not expressed in opposition to whoever made the original post about Brian's inconsistency. They are really only made because in the past I have been in that place, and I have become frustrated or angry or hurt enough to delete my account. And also because I like Brian's presence on the forum and "the more the merrier."