The Skeptiko post-trauma thread

That's my guess even though I'm much earlier on that road so I wouldn't know myself.  Just seems logical that tumblers started settling into place as he felt he gained "knowledge".

I was attracted initially by the tagline "intelligent discussion on science and spirituality".  The recent path of the podcasts seem to be no where near that tagline.  Hence, my interest waned.

Well, to be honest most of the "intelligent" discussion took place on the areas of the website that Alex never visited and never posted. Which always kind of puzzled me. Now it makes sense. He just wasn't interested.

I never really found the podcast to be much of an intelligent discussion because even from the beginning Alex was so biased. But he did introduce me to a bunch of authors and subjects that I knew nothing about at the time I started listening. I'd been a materialist atheist for decades and then after moving to a new city found myself terribly interested in all the Skeptiko subjects.

I deeply researched a few of them including UFOs (still an interest) and some others. I'm not at all opposed to the ideas surrounding the UFO (or Others) phenomena as a control mechanism which can blend into all kinds of "conspiracy" theories. But I keep them in the "narrative" container and maintain my skepticism as much as humanly possible.

Alex operates in a mode where he "knows" and others "do not know" (Stuck on stupid). That's not a position from which one can really have open eyes onto the true nature of reality. 

I'm happy pruning and maintaining narratives that may or may not be true. I don't need to know the veracity of any particular narrative. Even so it is particularly hard not to have clear bias.

The tough thing about someone like Alex is that they perceive themselves to be "skeptical" and relatively free of bias. But he only maintains that position because he knows the truth and everyone else is stuck on stupid.

Far too often the line of reasoning seems to be "A lot of scientists have failed to apply the scientific method properly, therefore Science Is Wrong," and even sometimes "Science Is Wrong, therefore maverick scientists are right."

Far too often the line of reasoning seems to be "A lot of scientists have failed to apply the scientific method properly, therefore Science Is Wrong," and even sometimes "Science Is Wrong, therefore maverick scientists are right."

Don't want to be too critical, but I wouldn't really call what Alex does "reasoning" to any real degree. And I say that as someone who also is a neophyte to real logical reasoning. For Alex, a debate centers around:

1. Have they read the NDE researchers? No. I win.

2. Have they read the NDE researchers? Yes. Do they agree with me? No. I win.

3. You're stuck on stupid.

I'm not saying this as an attack on Alex. I'm quite sure that Alex is a kind person and a good family man. But he is also a public figure and one who obviously prides himself on his "debating" skills. So I think it is perfectly fair to dissect his public persona.

I wondered about this, and I actually sought Laird's agreement before doing anything. My viewpoint is that the value of discussing the core subject of both forums, vastly exceeds the silly infighting that has broken out.  I mean, all forums 'poach' ideas from elsewhere - newspaper articles, scientific papers, other blogs, etc.

We aren't really in competition - except perhaps with those who want to close down discussion of ψ and related issues!

David

I see. I'm glad you at least asked about it before posting.

And I know all forums "poach" but I've mostly seen that with articles, blog posts, and other types of sources. I mean, this is the "Skeptiko post-trauma thread," so, to me, it seemed like "too soon." There are still some hurt feelings, anger, and bewilderment. And, sorry, it does seem that the forums are, for now, indirectly in competition.

PS I was not one of those banned, but I left before that because I saw the writing on the wall with how Alex was behaving. It just seemed... inevitable ... that something like this would happen.

Cheers.

[Laird]

I've moved the discussion of whether we should permit interviews on non-core subjects here: Should we permit interviews on non-core subjects, esp AIDS/HIV?

I'm Dreamsoap.

I'm Mediochre's girlfriend. He made me half heartedly join Skeptiko forums but I never listened to the podcasts let alone even really stalk the forums. Reason being is that we've both lead extremely paranormal lives (we even met this way) and I'm pretty done with not being able to talk to anyone remotely smart about it. I'm tired of heavily religious people and tired of low effort self proclaimed "skeptics". I used to frequent a forum that tried to investigate paranormal things but took such a heavy slant everyone was extremely conspiratorial and religious. You were a "dark hat/ one" if you dared asked questions or poked holes in logic.

This is less me expecting everyone to be the same here but more reason as to why I'm fairly abrasive about these topics. There's enough data to suggest the phenomenons are real and not just experienced in the minds of psychotic ward patients. It's time to drop the feel good assumptions and get to the core of what's going on.

Welcome to the forum! As you say, you both lead very paranormal lives, and I guess I am the opposite - I have had just a few incidents in my life that were probably paranormal! Nevertheless, I too am sick of the religious types (I seemed to cause a lot of trouble on Skeptiko by banning one such individual), and I think arguing with total sceptics is also pretty pointless by now.

There are some good podcasts on Skeptiko - though I think Alex has hit a rather barren patch recently. I'd suggest you look for Alex's interviews with Rupert Sheldrake, Dean Radin for starters. I can root out a longer list if you are interested.

Many of us  haven't experienced anything like enough paranormal phenomena to be totally certain about things. Indeed, a lot of my conviction comes from that fact that I don't think science has a clue about explaining the mind just in terms of physical matter. Therefore, I would be really interested if the two of you would think about possible demonstrations of the paranormal.

David

Welcome to the forum! As you say, you both lead very paranormal lives, and I guess I am the opposite - I have had just a few incidents in my life that were probably paranormal! Nevertheless, I too am sick of the religious types (I seemed to cause a lot of trouble on Skeptiko by banning one such individual), and I think arguing with total sceptics is also pretty pointless by now.

There are some good podcasts on Skeptiko - though I think Alex has hit a rather barren patch recently. I'd suggest you look for Alex's interviews with Rupert Sheldrake, Dean Radin for starters. I can root out a longer list if you are interested.

Many of us  haven't experienced anything like enough paranormal phenomena to be totally certain about things. Indeed, a lot of my conviction comes from that fact that I don't think science has a clue about explaining the mind just in terms of physical matter. Therefore, I would be really interested if the two of you would think about possible demonstrations of the paranormal.

David

Just a minute, David ! This isn't Skeptiko ! Kindly refrain from trying to make it seem like this forum is indistinguishable from Skeptiko !

Just a minute, David ! This isn't Skeptiko ! Kindly refrain from trying to make it seem like this forum is indistinguishable from Skeptiko !

Methinks the old boy got a bit mixed up on that one.   (Dave. Not you, Tim.)

Just a minute, David ! This isn't Skeptiko ! Kindly refrain from trying to make it seem like this forum is indistinguishable from Skeptiko !

Dreamsoap made a comparison between Skeptiko and here, and I pointed out that there are lots of very interesting podcasts stored at Skeptiko, and these represent a wonderful resource for anyone interested in ψ.

I don't want to make the two forums look the same, but neither do I wish to pretend that Skeptiko does not exist!

David

Dreamsoap made a comparison between Skeptiko and here, and I pointed out that there are lots of very interesting podcasts stored at Skeptiko, and these represent a wonderful resource for anyone interested in ψ.

I don't want to make the two forums look the same, but neither do I wish to pretend that Skeptiko does not exist!

David

"Dreamsoap made a comparison between Skeptiko and here, and I pointed out that there are lots of very interesting podcasts stored at Skeptiko, and these represent a wonderful resource for anyone interested in ψ."

Okay, David but for me your post was inappropriate based on the strength of feeling that exists as to how you administered Skeptiko ! 

Ref your post : I've bolded what I find unacceptable because to me it looks like you're "managing" again and  I personally do not want your management input on this forum. I think you are an intelligent poster and I welcome that but if you ever get a foothold of power here that will be (at least) my last day (on this forum)

DaveB Wrote:

Welcome to the forum! As you say, you both lead very paranormal lives, and I guess I am the opposite - I have had just a few incidents in my life that were probably paranormal! Nevertheless, I too am sick of the religious types (I seemed to cause a lot of trouble on Skeptiko by banning one such individual), and I think arguing with total sceptics is also pretty pointless by now.

There are some good podcasts on Skeptiko - though I think Alex has hit a rather barren patch recently. I'd suggest you look for Alex's interviews with Rupert Sheldrake, Dean Radin for starters. I can root out a longer list if you are interested.

Many of us  haven't experienced anything like enough paranormal phenomena to be totally certain about things. Indeed, a lot of my conviction comes from that fact that I don't think science has a clue about explaining the mind just in terms of physical matter. Therefore, I would be really interested if the two of you would think about possible demonstrations of the paranormal.

David

"I don't want to make the two forums look the same, but neither do I wish to pretend that Skeptiko does not exist!"

You are the main reason why this forum exists, David. Do you not get that ? I don't want to keep going on about this but you're winding me up. It doesn't matter that YOU don't want to make the two forums look the same. And it's not your business to come on here drumming up interest for a forum you ruined with your ridiculous moderation technique ! 

Please give a bit of thought to what I'm trying to get across to you (unless you want to live in 'cloud cuckoo land') and then just carry on as a poster like the rest of us ordinary mortals.