Skeptiko forums other than its show forum to be closed [split from: Happy fourth board anniversary]

Tim, you are far from a simpleton.

What would be the point? Some of it is obvious, some of it less so, probably based on my feelings, so difficult to put into words. Attempting to answer the questions in this paragraph may help.


Basically, I see people with hardened opinions and attitudes as being dangerous.

Fair enough, Stan, I get the picture ! I guess that Dave is not including you, though, in that which he is allergic to. I don't want to say much more really, because I'll end up 'ranting' about it and it won't do any good. I prefer to stick with the evidence collected through the scientific methods available because it makes me feel I'm on reasonably solid ground, although of course, one can never be sure.

Since broadband became available to the world along with social media, I've been predicting (to myself, lol) that society on the whole is going to suffer from a major nervous breakdown if only because of information overload. Add to that how social media platforms have been weaponized for psychological warfare, and being mostly a pessimist, the future looks very grim. A chasm has been formed in human history between the age of the internet and all that came before.

Of course, the usual large corporate media outlets haven't helped either with their, "and now joining us for debate are mr. sane rational factual vs the complete nutter"  thus giving both equal weight.

The biological brain has evolved demanding that every person must form some sort of belief structure in order to function in life. It's what drives people to keep going on.

The downside is that beliefs, however utterly unfounded and irrational, have this pesky way of actually affecting reality because people will behave, make choices, based on those beliefs.

As far as 'who's to say what is dangerous and what is not'....  well, society and democracy cannot function or sustain itself unless, as I've heard said in matters of the law and courts, the idea of there being people of a 'sane, rational and reasonable mind', to paraphrase.

Beliefs can run the entire gamut of being totally innocuous to that of fomenting mass violence, war and genocides. There's a massive onslaught of disinformation being targeted at western democratic societies. It's warfare for the digital age and it's amazingly effective.
To my mind, rightly, wrongly or somewhere in between, a good near 40% of the population nowadays is certifiable, be straight-jacketed and thrown into a rubber room, lol.

[...omitted...] and being mostly a pessimist, the future looks very grim.

The downside is that beliefs, however utterly unfounded and irrational, have this pesky way of actually affecting reality because people will behave, make choices, based on those beliefs.

I suppose you realise that pessimism is itself a belief, having all the pitfalls you describe - and possibly more if we take into account psi influencing the external world not just in appearance, but in actuality.

I heartily recommend optimism.

I suppose you realise that pessimism is itself a belief, having all the pitfalls you describe - and possibly more if we take into account psi influencing the external world not just in appearance, but in actuality.

I heartily recommend optimism.

I get what you say and agree.  I like to think my actions come from a place of optimism though.... treat others how I want to be treated (golden rule), who I vote for, being very aware of the space around me and others in it, etc etc etc. I also like to think that I'm just that bit more self aware than the average person in knowing my beliefs are just that, beliefs. I'm agnostic about my beliefs. Has made navigating this life somewhat a challenge though, lol.

But on the whole, I just don't have much faith in humanity itself. Like I say, there's a deep cutoff point between this digital/technological age we've entered and all that's come before it. Life will be unrecognizable as we know it now in a mere two, three hundred years. Hell, what we even recognize as human won't existent not much further along than that. 

Of course that's barring any apocalyptic style disasters. Of course also, it will be the norm for who or whatever exists in those future times. Just the idea of what's soon coming down the pike in terms of genetic engineering alone, with perhaps only the wealthy/powerful given the ability to actually bring forth 'enhanced' progeny while the rest of humanity winds up basically ghettoized, although not a new thought, is now an actually possibility. 

One of many such possible things makes me think it's gonna get a lot worse before things smooth themselves out. It's always them damn transitional periods what needs watching out for. They'll #@%$ you up good every time

Anyways, I'll be dead by then, lol

I suppose you realise that pessimism is itself a belief, having all the pitfalls you describe - and possibly more if we take into account psi influencing the external world not just in appearance, but in actuality.

I heartily recommend optimism.

Oh dear, my lifelong claim that I am an optimist has begun to suffer a crisis of confidence over the past few years. I live in New Zealand - a beautiful place with a fairly comfortable lifestyle even for someone relatively poor such as myself. For some unaccountable reason I have been following US news on YouTube since Trump started his political career. It is the whole fear-based disinformation campaign that Trump latched on to, that got him elected and that has highlighted the sheer intolerance of "the other" that is typical of populist politics and beliefs. (Sorry, mods, for being political here but the point goes to something more - a cultural and social dilemma which we are witnessing).

So it is not just the US although they make the big news. Just a couple of days ago I was out for may daily walk and happened to catch a snippet of a conversation between a triplet of old men as I passed. The snippet was "yes, we need our own version of Trump here... ". Needless to say, my optimism took another dive. We have been in Covid lockdown for several weeks here and that is pretty bad for people who live alone like I do. I haven't seen my family for weeks and I tend to dwell on my own anxieties more and more without the reassurance of my family to help me past the bad times. That encroaching pessimism has me thinking that I'm ready to take my leave of this world, despite my well-known fear of death. 

I was born into a world just starting to recover from a war in which my father and his generation fought against totalitarianism and political policies based upon fear and hatred of "the other"; based on a bogus idea of a chosen, superior people. Now, nearing the end of my life, I am seeing the same ideas spreading again. So my optimism has taken a pounding, I'm afraid.

I was born into a world just starting to recover from a war in which my father and his generation fought against totalitarianism and political policies based upon fear and hatred of "the other"; based on a bogus idea of a chosen, superior people. Now, nearing the end of my life, I am seeing the same ideas spreading again. So my optimism has taken a pounding, I'm afraid.

I'm sorry to hear of your situation and how it is affecting you. It certainly isn't easy. The familiar saying, "Do as I say, not as I do" could certainly apply to what I write here.

I started out choosing optimism from a purely pragmatic basis, that even if we have no control or impact over the world, we can look on the bright side or look on the dark side. Assuming nothing in the world changes, the one looking on the bright side has a generally happier time of things.

But later I began to realise that there were two additional factors. One, our own thoughts have creative force. Two, we may call on some higher power, however we may conceive of it and receive strength and support. It may be that the latter, in whatever way you may feel appropriate, is what you need during these times. Some sort of prayer.

I should add I'm not intending to suggest invoking some force to smite down the 'enemy', more to be able to walk through this world unharmed by it. The sun peeping through storm clouds can be even more wonderful than a clear blue sky.

The sun peeping through storm clouds can be even more wonderful than a clear blue sky.

Nice post Typoz. 

Thankyou, Typoz. This is why I call this my sanctuary.

I was feeling pretty down earlier when I wrote that and I let go of my long-held beliefs to wallow a while. Later, I finally got to see my family and immediately emerged from the gloom. 

I just want to say that everything you wrote there is something I have said myself on numerous occasions. And I should take my own advice occasionally too. But it is good to have someone else point out what I should remember even when times are bad. There will be a next time and I will probably push those beliefs aside once again but I hope that there will always be someone there to remind me - be it my family or a friend or someone across the world sharing thoughts on a forum.

Oh dear, my lifelong claim that I am an optimist has begun to suffer a crisis of confidence over the past few years. I live in New Zealand - a beautiful place with a fairly comfortable lifestyle even for someone relatively poor such as myself. For some unaccountable reason I have been following US news on YouTube since Trump started his political career. It is the whole fear-based disinformation campaign that Trump latched on to, that got him elected and that has highlighted the sheer intolerance of "the other" that is typical of populist politics and beliefs. (Sorry, mods, for being political here but the point goes to something more - a cultural and social dilemma which we are witnessing).

So it is not just the US although they make the big news. Just a couple of days ago I was out for may daily walk and happened to catch a snippet of a conversation between a triplet of old men as I passed. The snippet was "yes, we need our own version of Trump here... ". Needless to say, my optimism took another dive. We have been in Covid lockdown for several weeks here and that is pretty bad for people who live alone like I do. I haven't seen my family for weeks and I tend to dwell on my own anxieties more and more without the reassurance of my family to help me past the bad times. That encroaching pessimism has me thinking that I'm ready to take my leave of this world, despite my well-known fear of death. 

I was born into a world just starting to recover from a war in which my father and his generation fought against totalitarianism and political policies based upon fear and hatred of "the other"; based on a bogus idea of a chosen, superior people. Now, nearing the end of my life, I am seeing the same ideas spreading again. So my optimism has taken a pounding, I'm afraid.

It's entirely reasonable, Dave, I think we all (of a certain age of course, not the young hopefully) feel like that. I don't fear my own end so much, many of my friends have already gone and if they can do it, I can do it, I know that. But I like Jung's take on this...live on, look forward to the next day, then one lives properly. Of course he knew that death wasn't the end.

I thought I'd post this meme in honour of the Skeptiko forum.