Quantum Monism Could Save the Soul of Physics

That's a pretty big "other than"?

This conception of a single substance making the soul/body distinction an "illusion" is just some bizarre assumption on your part.

When one adds in all the Survival & Psi evidence, Monism seems like the best answer....though as I said one could posit a Pluralism where the soul is made from kind of special substance whose causal capabilities allow it to intersect with not only this world but the varied (and sometimes wildly different) afterlives...

The more I think about it seems to me Dualism is only the result of cherry picking certain NDEs and then ignoring other NDES but also PK, Reincarnation, Apparitions, and so on...

A "bizarre assumption", or is it just the common sense logical assumption based on experience? I guess an analogy could be the modern understanding of the macroscopic world of human life experience and observation in the Earth, and the submicroscopic world of atoms and their constituent subparticles making up all matter. At the ground level of existence what matter really is is mostly empty space suffused by fields and interspersed with these incredibly minute discrete atomic entities which themselves ultimately appear to be only abstractly imagined immaterial quantum mechanical entities.

But in everyday human life the by far most important world concept is the macroscopic domain; all humans perhaps except a few physicists live life as they must, in what is ultimately an illusion as if matter is a real infinitely continuous substance, with, for instance solid matter being fundamentally impenetrable by other solid objects. Even though surface contact between solids and the impenetrability of one solid object by another is really at the ground level of existence just the mutual repulsion of the charge fields of the atoms at the surfaces of the two objects.

By far the most important size domain to humans in everyday life is the ultimately in reality illusory macroscopic realm concept not the submicroscopic underlying reality. 

So, as this is the case with the macroscopic and submicroscopic realm concepts, it appears to me to be the case that in life on the Earth people experience and deal with life as if it has a Dualist nature where lived and experienced reality is that there are basically physical material things, and there are separate immaterial spiritual things, even though the concept of reality being a Monist realm of one single ground substance may ultimately be a more accurate conception. 

I would appreciate a little explication of how reincarnation, apparitions and psychokinesis are contradictions of this picture. For instance, in reincarnation what apparently happens is that the spirit separates from the physical body at death, enters a spiritual between-lives realm, and then after some period of time reenters the physical world by inhabiting another body, at the fetus or infant level of development. A logical process from the standpoint of Dualism. Some apparitions appear to be spirits who have chosen to enter the physical realm to inhabit certain locations and dwellings, and to interact in limited ways with physical humans. As with NDEs, and with normal embodiment via mainly brain interactions, there is a limited probably deliberately designed interaction between the two realms. Psychokinesis seems to be another limited allowed interaction between the two basic substances.

So, as this is the case with the macroscopic and submicroscopic realm concepts, it appears to me to be the case that in life on the Earth people experience and deal with life as if it has a Dualist nature where lived and experienced reality is that there are basically physical material things, and there are separate immaterial spiritual things, even though the concept of reality being a Monist realm of one single ground substance may ultimately be a more accurate conception. 

Well if you're saying a functional Dualism is a useful way to think about things then I would agree with that.

I would appreciate a little explication of how reincarnation, apparitions and psychokinesis are contradictions of this picture.

Well to me we demarcate substances by causal continuity so ->

Reincarnation - specifically thinking about birthmarks being placed near fatal wounds from the previous life. So a causal continuity from previous physical body to new physical body carried by the mental experience of the soul.

Apparitions - they can decrease the temperature, move objects around or leave markings, turn into balls of light, and of course are seen. So these are spirit entities with causal efficacy on the physical world.

PK - Ectoplasm, if we accept that's a form of PK, is a major case of the spiritual producing via the physical body of a medium an effect that itself seems in between the spiritual and physical. But even without that we have minds affecting the physical world, so another case of causal continuity.

Admittedly I don't know if it matters how many different substances there are but by my count there's Monism or Pluralism with Dualism getting skipped over...

How could this NDEer reasonably interpret her vivid actual experience as other than that of being a now disembodied spirit (having left her physical bodIy), of a fundamentally different substance than matter especially since she is now interpenetrating matter with almost no interaction (other than being able to somehow intercept and perceive physical light rays in the room and other locations in the hospital)

And the question still stubbornly remains unanswered, why and how the elaborate illusion?

Is it an intentional  illusion, or simply a "trick" of the senses and our ability to see deeper meaning?

I see 3 substances, if a spiritual view is included.  Science is not there, with no measuring of spiritual events.  Spiritual substances remain metaphysical, until science can embrace their reality.

On the other hand, methodologically, science practice has fallen in love with parsing deep information data, such as metadata and network systems.  It is treated intuitively as "stuff".  I agree that an NDE'er most likely would perceive their new environment as made of different stuff.  But, this stuff still is connected in some way to physical reality.  If, we live in a physical environment, for which we have evolved detection systems - and we live in an informational environment, then survival is the obvious result after death.

For me, the "stuff" -- is the informational environment's structures (probability waves) and the NDE'er (and maybe others) is a perceiving agent influencing her surroundings.

Sight is NOT intercepting light rays.  Photon counts aren't seeing.  Physical information is "seen" via the optic nerve/brain feeding the mind.  It is detection of real-world probabilities of state and detection of waves that relate the living thing and its purposes.   Sight --  puts living things into the informational environment.  Mind project that back to physical responses.  Something dies, the pupil is fixed, photon counts are interrupted.  But why would the mind of an agent stop detection, when still detecting probability waves is available?

Well if you're saying a functional Dualism is a useful way to think about things then I would agree with that.


Well to me we demarcate substances by causal continuity so ->

Reincarnation - specifically thinking about birthmarks being placed near fatal wounds from the previous life. So a causal continuity from previous physical body to new physical body carried by the mental experience of the soul.

Apparitions - they can decrease the temperature, move objects around or leave markings, turn into balls of light, and of course are seen. So these are spirit entities with causal efficacy on the physical world.

PK - Ectoplasm, if we accept that's a form of PK, is a major case of the spiritual producing via the physical body of a medium an effect that itself seems in between the spiritual and physical. But even without that we have minds affecting the physical world, so another case of causal continuity.

Admittedly I don't know if it matters how many different substances there are but by my count there's Monism or Pluralism with Dualism getting skipped over...

If the very existence of some sort of "causal continuity" between spirit and matter ruled out Dualism, then Dualism would at the beginning be ruled out simply by the existence of the major interaction of human embodiment via the spirit inhabiting and intricately interacting with the physical brain and body in order to manifest in the physical world, certainly by far the most important example of interaction between the two realms. Reincarnation and associated birthmarks would just be a variation on the theme of embodiment.

I see the situation as one of there being a number of specific allowed-for and designed-in exceptions to intentional and planned primary Dualism, where the overall design of physical reality is deliberately mostly dualistic with the exception of embodiment, which is the whole reason for the existence of the physical realm. The designer(s) apparently considered paranormal phenomena such as PK effects like ectoplasm and other mediumistic phenomena, and apparitions, to be a subsidiary and relatively insignificant area of (perhaps even unintended) residual interaction, as opposed to embodiment itself. This is evidenced by the fact that paranormal interactions such as PK and and apparitions are relatively rare and not encountered in daily life except in unusual circumstances.

Is it an intentional  illusion, or simply a "trick" of the senses and our ability to see deeper meaning?

I see 3 substances, if a spiritual view is included.  Science is not there, with no measuring of spiritual events.  Spiritual substances remain metaphysical, until science can embrace their reality.

On the other hand, methodologically, science practice has fallen in love with parsing deep information data, such as metadata and network systems.  It is treated intuitively as "stuff".  I agree that an NDE'er most likely would perceive their new environment as made of different stuff.  But, this stuff still is connected in some way to physical reality.  If, we live in a physical environment, for which we have evolved detection systems - and we live in an informational environment, then survival is the obvious result after death.

For me, the "stuff" -- is the informational environment's structures (probability waves) and the NDE'er (and maybe others) is a perceiving agent influencing her surroundings.

Sight is NOT intercepting light rays.  Photon counts aren't seeing.  Physical information is "seen" via the optic nerve/brain feeding the mind.  It is detection of real-world probabilities of state and detection of waves that relate the living thing and its purposes.   Sight --  puts living things into the informational environment.  Mind project that back to physical responses.  Something dies, the pupil is fixed, photon counts are interrupted.  But why would the mind of an agent stop detection, when still detecting probability waves is available?

Good point. I would interpret this as the observation that NDE accounts of "seeing" the operating room (or other physical locations) while detached from the body are not interception and detection by the so-called "subtle body" or spiritual entity of the physical light rays reflected by the physical objects, but are the result of direct psychic sensing of physical matter configurations and subsequent instinctive unconscious conversion of this information into the long accustomed-to in physical life "physical sight" perceptions in consciousness. Something like this may be occurring in some cases of so-called "blindsight" in NDEs of the blind.

If the very existence of some sort of "causal continuity" between spirit and matter ruled out Dualism, then Dualism would at the beginning be ruled out simply by the existence of the major interaction of human embodiment via the spirit inhabiting and intricately interacting with the physical brain and body in order to manifest in the physical world, certainly by far the most important example of interaction between the two realms. Reincarnation and associated birthmarks would just be a variation on the theme of embodiment.

Yeah this is actually why a lot of people don't accept Dualism. However, I do think it might be harsh to eliminate Dualism at the outset because it isn't clear how fractions of the same "stuff" interact or how we are even defining "stuff" here. Are forces, matter, space-time all really the same "stuff"?

That said, the split between the two supposed substances isn't clear when considering the paranormal evidence. What I could see as a clear distinction is the philosophical split between the "mental" and any kind of "stuff" whether than is ectoplasm, atoms, or even whatever ghosts are made of (ether?). However, it isn't clear how the "mental" exists on its own...unless, of course, Idealism is the correct metaphysics in which case there is only Mind. My issue is consciousness, as it is known to us, seems to exist in such a way as to demarcate a space between our conscious self and the "Other" which suggests that Idealism is wrong in some possibly crucial way.

I see the situation as one of there being a number of specific allowed-for and designed-in exceptions to intentional and planned primary Dualism, where the overall design of physical reality is deliberately mostly dualistic with the exception of embodiment, which is the whole reason for the existence of the physical realm. The designer(s) apparently considered paranormal phenomena such as PK effects like ectoplasm and other mediumistic phenomena, and apparitions, to be a subsidiary and relatively insignificant area of (perhaps even unintended) residual interaction, as opposed to embodiment itself. This is evidenced by the fact that paranormal interactions such as PK and and apparitions are relatively rare and not encountered in daily life except in unusual circumstances.

But the brain/body interaction would then be PK for soul -> body and some kind of "reverse-PK" for the body -> soul. That this is designed makes reality seem like some kind of programmed video-game...which I guess is possible but then the issue of contrivance comes in...of course in a world such as ours this may be an inevitable issue due to the seemingly deliberate divide between life and afterlife...

I would interpret this as the observation that NDE accounts of "seeing" the operating room (or other physical locations) while detached from the body are not interception and detection by the so-called "subtle body" or spiritual entity of the physical light rays reflected by the physical objects, but are the result of direct psychic sensing of physical matter configurations and subsequent instinctive unconscious conversion of this information into the long accustomed-to in physical life "physical sight" perceptions in consciousness. Something like this may be occurring in some cases of so-called "blindsight" in NDEs of the blind.

I strongly endorse the idea of "blindsight" being direct perception.
A model of the process is suggested by the facts that "probability waves" and interference patterns are the ground floor of information.  The model describes structured objects called affordances, which the mind can directly detect.  Gibson saw them as ambient optical arrays containing meaningful information.

https://dictionary.apa.org/ambient-optic...erception.