Forum Rules and Guidelines Discussion

[Ninshub]

He means me, David.

He means me, David.

I think he knows that but he's doing his usual "Who? Me? I don't understand ..." thing. He's a game player and a control freak. Notice how he turned my objection to his discussing politics into my desire to argue politics with him which, of course, provided him with the excuse he needed to push his political views once again. And how he claims to be uninterested in moderation (in his book, that means control) when he grabs at yet another opportunity to tell you what moderation steps you need to take.

I don't know, Ian, I'm just about done here. The push from the right is making this an unpleasant experience and I don't feel up to fighting it this time around. I don't know why Bailey and Stan don't go off to find a forum where their version of "free" speech (on the subjects they want to talk about) is welcome. Perhaps they just enjoy being disrupters.

The push form the right is making this an unpleasant experience

Are you saying I’m ‘from the right’? If so, that’s f’ing laughable. I voted for Jeremy Corbyn FFS so that should show how misguided your thinking is. You’re really some cookie! 

I think he knows that but he's doing his usual "Who? Me? I don't understand ..." thing. He's a game player and a control freak. Notice how he turned my objection to his discussing politics into my desire to argue politics with him which, of course, provided him with the excuse he needed to push his political views once again. And how he claims to be uninterested in moderation (in his book, that means control) when he grabs at yet another opportunity to tell you what moderation steps you need to take.

I don't know, Ian, I'm just about done here. The push from the right is making this an unpleasant experience and I don't feel up to fighting it this time around. I don't know why Bailey and Stan don't go off to find a forum where their version of "free" speech (on the subjects they want to talk about) is welcome. Perhaps they just enjoy being disrupters.

Kamarling, I remember a time when we used to be friends. I think it was when I revealed my political allegiances that you changed completely. I don't see how I can be accused of pushing political views here, but you can't seem to get over the fact that I don't share your political views. How do you know how many other people here share your political views, and is it remotely relevant to what the bulk of this forum is really about?

Why don't we stop fighting? I asked who 'Ian' was because I don't remember everyone's first name in addition to their nicknames - not to play any games. Remember also that some people changed their first name when they changed forums! Almost all of us use nicknames here, but I chose to base mine on my real first name because I don't think that compromises my privacy.

I came here to be able to explore psi with like-minded people.

Believe me, I do recognise how hard moderation is - it looks easy when people are helpful and constructive, but then they start to pull in 50 different directions at once! I think Ninshub is encountering some of that.

IMHO, the real problem here, is that although you have built up an impressive collection of psi-related threads, and some interviews, the forum has become frighteningly slow. For example, I started a thread a while back to try to collect some suggestions as to where to go for an easy introduction to A.N Whitehead's thoughts. So far I haven't had a single reply to my request.

With a brisk flow of psi-related ideas, nobody who wasn't interested in some of the non psi-topics, would even notice they exist, and we would all have more interesting things to do here than squabble about nothing.

 I'm just about done here.

I hope you don't mean you are leaving the forum.  I always valued you as one of the key players and one of the most objective debaters (and I'm not just saying that because you have an R.A.Wilson quote as your signature.) .  I understand your position but it would be really sad if you went.

Kamarling, I remember a time when we used to be friends. I think it was when I revealed my political allegiances that you changed completely. I don't see how I can be accused of pushing political views here, but you can't seem to get over the fact that I don't share your political views. How do you know how many other people here share your political views, and is it remotely relevant to what the bulk of this forum is really about?

Why don't we stop fighting? I asked who 'Ian' was because I don't remember everyone's first name in addition to their nicknames - not to play any games. Remember also that some people changed their first name when they changed forums! Almost all of us use nicknames here, but I chose to base mine on my real first name because I don't think that compromises my privacy.

I came here to be able to explore psi with like-minded people.

Believe me, I do recognise how hard moderation is - it looks easy when people are helpful and constructive, but then they start to pull in 50 different directions at once! I think Ninshub is encountering some of that.

IMHO, the real problem here, is that although you have built up an impressive collection of psi-related threads, and some interviews, the forum has become frighteningly slow. For example, I started a thread a while back to try to collect some suggestions as to where to go for an easy introduction to A.N Whitehead's thoughts. So far I haven't had a single reply to my request.

With a brisk flow of psi-related ideas, nobody who wasn't interested in some of the non psi-topics, would even notice they exist, and we would all have more interesting things to do here than squabble about nothing.

OK - I will answer your observation with my own and leave it at that. I did consider you and Michael Larkin as kindred spirits when the discussions were limited to Psi related subjects but yes, I lost that sense of compatibility as soon as you both started stating your political views which were (and are) anathema to me (by the way, I don't buy your anti-war excuse ... I don't know anyone who isn't anti-war so that does not set you apart from the rest of us). Nevertheless, it was your moderation that caused a lot of bad feeling, not just with me but with others as some of them have expressed in this very thread. The fact that it was you who banned me was, in my opinion, not unrelated to my opposition to your political and social statements in public on Skeptiko.

So you can argue chicken and egg but it is clear in my mind and my recollection. But you are right in one thing: my awareness of your stance on the matters we should avoid here does mean that I can never trust your motives again. I happen to continue to agree with your posts on Psi and the way it is dismissed by the materialist orthodoxy but I just can't square that with what I know of your other views. I'm afarid there's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

Seems like even this discussion shows clearly why we should just keep the politics stuff opt-in and separate from the primary topics related to the paranormal.

I mean Alex seems to have gutted the forums on Skeptiko for the same reason?

OK - I will answer your observation with my own and leave it at that. I did consider you and Michael Larkin as kindred spirits when the discussions were limited to Psi related subjects but yes, I lost that sense of compatibility as soon as you both started stating your political views which were (and are) anathema to me (by the way, I don't buy your anti-war excuse ... I don't know anyone who isn't anti-war so that does not set you apart from the rest of us). Nevertheless, it was your moderation that caused a lot of bad feeling, not just with me but with others as some of them have expressed in this very thread. The fact that it was you who banned me was, in my opinion, not unrelated to my opposition to your political and social statements in public on Skeptiko.

So you can argue chicken and egg but it is clear in my mind and my recollection. But you are right in one thing: my awareness of your stance on the matters we should avoid here does mean that I can never trust your motives again. I happen to continue to agree with your posts on Psi and the way it is dismissed by the materialist orthodoxy but I just can't square that with what I know of your other views. I'm afarid there's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

It's disturbing and interesting to me how one can have such an almost intimate and deep connection around what appears to be a level of reality and causality that is far more profound and fundamental than the petty tribal -social/political/ideological positions we plant our flags on. Is society designed to foment these polarities? are they just inherent in the universe? and how do we transcend them?

It's disturbing and interesting to me how one can have such an almost intimate and deep connection around what appears to be a level of reality and causality that is far more profound and fundamental than the petty tribal -social/political/ideological positions we plant our flags on. Is society designed to foment these polarities? are they just inherent in the universe? and how do we transcend them?

Planting our flags. That is an interesting phrase. First it means claiming some territory. But later it means defending that against all comers.

A while ago I used to be aggressively antagonistic towards particular groups - traditional religion and conventional materialism would be examples.  But in a way that was just a defence against feeling my own position under pressure. But that seems to have changed. It doesn't seem so important any more. Maybe the outside threats have diminished. Or maybe I just stopped listening to them.

Whatever the reason, these days I feel more of a connection with others, regardless of where we may claim our ground to plant the flags. Trying to demonstrate the 'rightness' of one's position and the error of one's opponents after a while starts to look like madness. There are human traits, I have them, I've used them, done my share of harming others. And for what? A few moment's satisfaction at landing a blow on another. It does feel right sometimes. After a while though, that person on the receiving end of the blow becomes oneself. Then what? Sorrow follows. It isn't easy, this life. But it only ends in realising that the other is oneself.

Planting our flags. That is an interesting phrase. First it means claiming some territory. But later it means defending that against all comers.

A while ago I used to be aggressively antagonistic towards particular groups - traditional religion and conventional materialism would be examples.  But in a way that was just a defence against feeling my own position under pressure. But that seems to have changed. It doesn't seem so important any more. Maybe the outside threats have diminished. Or maybe I just stopped listening to them.

Whatever the reason, these days I feel more of a connection with others, regardless of where we may claim our ground to plant the flags. Trying to demonstrate the 'rightness' of one's position and the error of one's opponents after a while starts to look like madness. There are human traits, I have them, I've used them, done my share of harming others. And for what? A few moment's satisfaction at landing a blow on another. It does feel right sometimes. After a while though, that person on the receiving end of the blow becomes oneself. Then what? Sorrow follows. It isn't easy, this life. But it only ends in realising that the other is oneself.

I'm 70 years old now. One day I hope to be as mature in my attitudes as you are.