Do proponents have a harder time with horror entertainment?

Was curious about this, as sometimes it seems horror fans who like very disturbing stuff involving the spiritual world don't actually believe such things exist?

For myself, given my own "Deep Weird" potentially paranormal experiences as a child...I've always been wary of horror movies. As an adult part of my reason is that a lot of horror movies are terrible films with contrived plots...

...but I'd be lying if I didn't admit part of it is that in some way these movies seem like they could touch on something potentially real..

No. Horror is my favorite genre. I always watch horror movies and read horror novels etc.

No. Horror is my favorite genre. I always watch horror movies and read horror novels etc.

Interesting - I've long been a Stephen King fan but usually the Good guys win in his works. 

Did just watch Bring Her Back, Good Boy, and Talk to Me, but I have to admit I looked up the endings because I usually dislike horror movies where Evil wins. Weapons...I think I saw this without looking up the ending...

Was curious about this, as sometimes it seems horror fans who like very disturbing stuff involving the spiritual world don't actually believe such things exist?

For myself, given my own "Deep Weird" potentially paranormal experiences as a child...I've always been wary of horror movies. As an adult part of my reason is that a lot of horror movies are terrible films with contrived plots...

...but I'd be lying if I didn't admit part of it is that in some way these movies seem like they could touch on something potentially real..

I love horror movies, I love settings that use hardcore interpretations of religious ideas like Trench Crusade, I like weird spiritual stuff. Part of what being a proponent means to me is that I don't need to live in fear of artificial boundaries placed on me by people. I can enjoy these narratives for what they are because I am well read enough in these topics to know what's REAL and what isn't and how these man made things designed to make me afraid aren't ever going to actually affect me.

It's something which leaves me bemused. I've never been able to grasp the concept. I guess the horror genre just doesn't have anything which I can relate to. Except maybe once, years ago I was watching on TV a film, which seemed shocking, but I just thought, 'oh, this is just like my life' - I meant it was like some brief episode of my life, and in that respect it seemed mundane rather than anything out of the ordinary.

Still, in general, especially these days as film production often seems to lack any depth and doesn't tend to reach me regardless of genre, horror is still a genre which puzzles me, I don't understand the appeal, like why does this type of story exist, why does anyone make such productions, why does anyone watch them, it's like much of life, it fills me with questions.

I suppose I should say, when I was growing up, I was an avid reader, fiction and non-fiction, I used to read such a lot of fiction and enjoy it. But at some point, it was like *bang* something changed in me and I started to find fiction dull and true-life stories such as biography, autobiography and the episodes which happen in real life infinitely more interesting.

So what am I saying? Well, fiction can have some appeal, but there is nowadays a type of formulaic recipe followed in order to churn out vast quantities of entertainment, but the capacity to satisfy is often not present. So, I drifted somewhat from the original topic. Except to suggest that sometimes there can be something which does capture an aspect of reality contained within something even though it may be described as 'entertainment', but I prefer mostly real-life stories.

I regret also the tendency to categorise any type of psychic or spiritual experience as being somehow disturbing and to present it in a formulaic way where it seems impossible to share the things which really do happen to people in story form, without squeezing it into a dark misrepresentation, a negative light.

Perhaps there is some relation with underlying religious traditions which often repeat certain mantras in a Pavlovian response to anything spiritual, where something can only fall into one of two categories, two boxes. One of them affirms some established religion, the other therefore by definition is from the devil, is satanic. This either/or categorisation of experience seems, in my opinion, to have led to a wholesale misrepresentation of spiritual experience as being somehow dark, and this is a purely human construction, a framework which does not correspond with actual lived experience. I'm back at that *bang* moment again, where true-life stories appeal to me more than manufactured ones.

Was curious about this, as sometimes it seems horror fans who like very disturbing stuff involving the spiritual world don't actually believe such things exist?

For myself, given my own "Deep Weird" potentially paranormal experiences as a child...I've always been wary of horror movies. As an adult part of my reason is that a lot of horror movies are terrible films with contrived plots...

...but I'd be lying if I didn't admit part of it is that in some way these movies seem like they could touch on something potentially real..

I consider most horror films to be sensationalizing and misrepresneting the paranormal as far how they affect me being a proponent  I can't really tell although I think focusing to much attention on the "demonic" can produce some very negative effects

I love horror movies, I love settings that use hardcore interpretations of religious ideas like Trench Crusade, I like weird spiritual stuff. Part of what being a proponent means to me is that I don't need to live in fear of artificial boundaries placed on me by people. I can enjoy these narratives for what they are because I am well read enough in these topics to know what's REAL and what isn't and how these man made things designed to make me afraid aren't ever going to actually affect me.

So you don't think there are Hells? No malevolent entities?

Hells I can see as probably not existing, and possibly Parnia is right that distressing NDEs containing this imagery is more a combination of cultural conditioning + a variant of hospital delusion due to invasive procedures.

But there seem to be enough accounts where someone encounters something that is at best mischievous if not actively seeking to do harm. 

It's something which leaves me bemused. I've never been able to grasp the concept. I guess the horror genre just doesn't have anything which I can relate to. Except maybe once, years ago I was watching on TV a film, which seemed shocking, but I just thought, 'oh, this is just like my life' - I meant it was like some brief episode of my life, and in that respect it seemed mundane rather than anything out of the ordinary.

Still, in general, especially these days as film production often seems to lack any depth and doesn't tend to reach me regardless of genre, horror is still a genre which puzzles me, I don't understand the appeal, like why does this type of story exist, why does anyone make such productions, why does anyone watch them, it's like much of life, it fills me with questions.

I suppose I should say, when I was growing up, I was an avid reader, fiction and non-fiction, I used to read such a lot of fiction and enjoy it. But at some point, it was like *bang* something changed in me and I started to find fiction dull and true-life stories such as biography, autobiography and the episodes which happen in real life infinitely more interesting.

So what am I saying? Well, fiction can have some appeal, but there is nowadays a type of formulaic recipe followed in order to churn out vast quantities of entertainment, but the capacity to satisfy is often not present. So, I drifted somewhat from the original topic. Except to suggest that sometimes there can be something which does capture an aspect of reality contained within something even though it may be described as 'entertainment', but I prefer mostly real-life stories.

I regret also the tendency to categorise any type of psychic or spiritual experience as being somehow disturbing and to present it in a formulaic way where it seems impossible to share the things which really do happen to people in story form, without squeezing it into a dark misrepresentation, a negative light.

Perhaps there is some relation with underlying religious traditions which often repeat certain mantras in a Pavlovian response to anything spiritual, where something can only fall into one of two categories, two boxes. One of them affirms some established religion, the other therefore by definition is from the devil, is satanic. This either/or categorisation of experience seems, in my opinion, to have led to a wholesale misrepresentation of spiritual experience as being somehow dark, and this is a purely human construction, a framework which does not correspond with actual lived experience. I'm back at that *bang* moment again, where true-life stories appeal to me more than manufactured ones.

I usually dislike horror that is just gory and violent, especially as I get older. I do think there are some good horror movies touching on cultural angst and/or personal emotions, such as the recent movie Bring Her Back which dealt with love between mother & daughter and love between siblings (one who is adopted). 

I do have a deep love of fiction, especially the fantastical. I think this relates to the "Deep Weird", potentially paranormal experiences I had when I was very young. My favorite true life stories when I was young involved the supernatural in some way, even if it was "just" a spiritual vision.

I also agree that at times it does feel the paranormal is shown as the negative force in much of horror, a reactionary attitude that at best seems to show only traditional religious subservience is the "right" path. That or we should be relieved we live in a materialist/mechanistic world where supernatural events are impossible.

I consider most horror films to be sensationalizing and misrepresneting the paranormal as far how they affect me being a proponent  I can't really tell although I think focusing to much attention on the "demonic" can produce some very negative effects

I do agree that at times making the "demonic", as you put it, seem "cool" in some transgressive way is not healthy for society. 

There are some works in horror where the Good also has some paranormal power. Stephen King often has the good guys blessed with some power, whether it's a psychic connection or even the ability to banish Evil entities.

I feel that the spirit world (perhaps not the best phrase) can't be all good. As I have said before, I rather think that Alexander Tsarkis and the whole Skeptiko forum were destroyed in that sort of way - remember how he used to boast that his latest project was to explore the dark side of the paranormal.

I don't like horror movies, and I don't think it is wise to become obsessed with them - just as I would not want to see a movie about a sex murderer or a rapist.

David

So you don't think there are Hells? No malevolent entities?

Hells I can see as probably not existing, and possibly Parnia is right that distressing NDEs containing this imagery is more a combination of cultural conditioning + a variant of hospital delusion due to invasive procedures.

But there seem to be enough accounts where someone encounters something that is at best mischievous if not actively seeking to do harm. 


I usually dislike horror that is just gory and violent, especially as I get older. I do think there are some good horror movies touching on cultural angst and/or personal emotions, such as the recent movie Bring Her Back which dealt with love between mother & daughter and love between siblings (one who is adopted). 

I do have a deep love of fiction, especially the fantastical. I think this relates to the "Deep Weird", potentially paranormal experiences I had when I was very young. My favorite true life stories when I was young involved the supernatural in some way, even if it was "just" a spiritual vision.

I also agree that at times it does feel the paranormal is shown as the negative force in much of horror, a reactionary attitude that at best seems to show only traditional religious subservience is the "right" path. That or we should be relieved we live in a materialist/mechanistic world where supernatural events are impossible.


I do agree that at times making the "demonic", as you put it, seem "cool" in some transgressive way is not healthy for society. 

There are some works in horror where the Good also has some paranormal power. Stephen King often has the good guys blessed with some power, whether it's a psychic connection or even the ability to banish Evil entities.

I'm thinking even people who fight against evil or tend to over identify what they see as negative aspects in peoples or cultures as being entities or possension states, may have a tendency to constellate the very thing that they are reacting to which may be a projection of  unintegreated parts of themselves. 

I knew a semi famous Jungian analyst (robert moore who wrote the book "king, warrior magician, lover") who wrote and lectures extensively on the nature of evil and psychopathology. He seemed almost enamoured with it in retrospect.  He worked extensively in the mens movement with robert bly and james hillman  and was a mentor to many in that  movement including myself. I am stil somewhat in shock from when I found out a few years ago that he shot his wife and then himself. He was a very well known and respected analyst and minister at the cg jung institue of chicago. I've never heard any useful way of understanding what precipitated that act from his constiuents but my feeling was that he went to deep down that rabbit hole and got swallowed up.

I feel that the spirit world (perhaps not the best phrase) can't be all good. As I have said before, I rather think that Alexander Tsarkis and the whole Skeptiko forum were destroyed in that sort of way - remember how he used to boast that his latest project was to explore the dark side of the paranormal.

The spirit world is mostly neutral ~ it is not centered around humanity, nor even vaguely concerned with it.

Benevolent entities are the majority, while malicious entities are far rarer than popular media would imply.

Enough negative events are simply our own doings ~ self-sabotage, with malicious entities being scapegoats for human problems, whether psi or elsewise.

(Of course, I suppose you could personally piss off or annoy a neutral entity, but that won't make it actively malicious to everyone, generally.)

Popular religion has largely poisoned views of how people perceive the spiritual ~ heaven vs hell, spiritual warfare, and all that crap.