Debate: That veridical NDEs are a myth [split: A splendid video about evolution]

[Laird]

As Smaw has already pointed out, Penny Sartori's hit can most likely be explained by prompting the interviewees so she could get something to confirm her a priori written conclusion.

In this thread we haven't counted it as a hit if by "hit" you mean correctly describing the target. According to the quotes supplied by Linda in the thread Will linked to, the patient described the colour and roughly got it right only on the third interview, and yes, after prompting (but not as to which colour), while in the first interview he'd said he didn't even look.

We've counted it though as a veridical NDE simply because the patient described - without prompting - other details correctly. See the interview excerpts (including questions) in Penny's paper A Prospectively Studied Near-Death Experience with Corroborated Out-of-Body Perceptions and Unexplained Healing. None of the questions are leading with respect to the veridical details.

In this thread we haven't counted it as a hit if by "hit" you mean correctly describing the target. According to the quotes supplied by Linda in the thread Will linked to, the patient described the colour and roughly got it right only on the third interview, and yes, after prompting (but not as to which colour), while in the first interview he'd said he didn't even look.

We've counted it though as a veridical NDE simply because the patient described - without prompting - other details correctly. See the interview excerpts (including questions) in Penny's paper A Prospectively Studied Near-Death Experience with Corroborated Out-of-Body Perceptions and Unexplained Healing. None of the questions are leading with respect to the veridical details.

Idk if i'm posting in the right thread but what do you think about the cases in the book "The Self Does Not Die" by Rivas et al. , do you happen to know how they are verified? Or how the investigation process takes place? I wanna buy the book but i don't really want to make false hopes . Thanks in advance.

[Laird]

Idk if i'm posting in the right thread but what do you think about the cases in the book "The Self Does Not Die" by Rivas et al. , do you happen to know how they are verified? Or how the investigation process takes place? I wanna buy the book but i don't really want to make false hopes . Thanks in advance.

To be honest, I have only dipped into the odd case in the book, not read it in full. Based on what I've read, the cases and verification standard will satisfy a skeptical but open-minded person; the average die-hard pseudo-skeptic will never be satisfied anyway with evidence based on that which (s)he derisively - and unscientifically - dismisses as (merely) anecdotal.

If you want a sense of the sort of investigative process the authors undertake, before deciding whether or not to buy the book, you can check out for free a transcript of the interview that Titus Rivas undertook with the nurse who reported the "denture man" case discussed in this thread:

English Transation of Transcript of Interview with TG about the “Man with the Dentures”

[Laird]

Hello again and thank you! I think i built the question the wrong way , by that i meant , what is the process of them investigating a case? Do they go and take interviews of the people mentioned in each case? Or atleast the doctors and people who were operating on them?

Yes, they directly interview as many of the primary people involved as possible. They also if I recall correctly seek out primary documentation, such as medical records, where available.

Yes, they directly interview as many of the primary people involved as possible. They also if I recall correctly seek out primary documentation, such as medical records, where available.

Probably not true. According to this book review https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B...geNumber=1 the cases are

Their collection of NDE reports is certainly extensive, but due to poor documentation they cannot be considered as anything more than a collection of “wonder stories” due to lack of detail, poor documentation, and absent serious scientific analysis.

I fully expects the cases to be of the same low quality as Denture man and Jeffery Long’s catalog.