Cosmic Cradle: pre-birth memories

[Ninshub]

This is another interesting one I'm listening too now.

Queued up to when the recounting of the pre-birth memories start. She accessed them through dreams but she had paranormal experiences starting at age 5 with a guide's voice telling what her life would be.

Not so much naiveté here as just the excitement and the empowered sense of the spirit knowing they can do this, and then the contrast of the deflated sense when the veil occurs and the human conditioning starts. (Listening to this bit again, yes you could say there is naiveté again, "This will be so easy".)

Interesting repeating motifs of souls visiting earth before incarnation on a spaceship-like space.

https://youtu.be/8wns9sHhCg8?t=365

Relevant bit too starting at around 12 minutes, first through the interviewee's comments, than the interviewer's, that directly addressing the question of: why go through all this pain/suffering as individuals? Some of that relates to the well-being of the collective, how getting those experiences (and transmuting them) generates something of value for the All That Is you could say.

The soul is supposed to be a much greater and wiser being than the human - the "naive soul" theory completely conflicts with this and with many channelings, like Ron Scolastico's.

If the soul is really so naive and essentially foolish in the prebirth period, then that soul personality in such cases must be radically different than the human personality and would seem to essentially be a different person. I know for sure that it would have to be a different person than me who either deliberately and knowingly decided to undergo a short and pain filled life, or foolishly decided on a new life not knowing how likely it was for it to be a disaster for that upcoming new person. 

The personal human "me" instead would look at the available information about the proposed upcoming life, insist on avoiding a high probability of major and protracted suffering, and would refuse to come back into the Earth plane at all if there was no information. 

This gets down to the difficult issue of deciding what is the personal "myself" or "I" - for me it is my human personality with all its memories back into childhood, "I" would absolutely never jump into a new life either knowing that it would be a very hard row to hoe, or not having any information on the probability of it being a disaster for the new human person. It would be a "somebody else" that I know is fundamentally different than me that made such terrible and foolish from the human standpoint decisions. If the spirit really automatically becomes so foolishly naive in the prebirth period, then the potential badness of this from the human standpoint is on whatever are the "powers that be" that set up this system.

[Ninshub]

If the soul is really so naive and essentially foolish in the prebirth period, then that soul personality in such cases must be radically different than the human personality and would seem to essentially be a different person. I know for sure that it would have to be a different person than me who either deliberately and knowingly decided to undergo a short and pain filled life, or foolishly decided on a new life not knowing how likely it was for it to be a disaster for that upcoming new person.

I'm not sure I follow this. If the soul is naive - and I'm not saying they are, they are perhaps naive just in the sense of assuming the ride is easy, underestimating the difficulty rather, because they're not undergoing it at that moment (having the veil, the conditioning, the sense of time) - why is the human personality different? I don't see the difference. 

You're also saying it's a "disaster" for that upcoming new person, whereas for the 3 people I just posted the disaster was a prelude to an awakening, so it's far from a disaster in the end for these people.

I'm not sure I follow this. If the soul is naive - and I'm not saying they are, they are perhaps naive just in the sense of assuming the ride is easy, underestimating the difficulty rather, because they're not undergoing it at that moment (having the veil, the conditioning, the sense of time) - why is the human personality different? I don't see the difference. 

You're also saying it's a "disaster" for that upcoming new person, whereas for the 3 people I just posted the disaster was a prelude to an awakening, so it's far from a disaster in the end for these people.

Maybe, if the sense of meaning and purpose are strong enough, it transcends the pain of identifying with one’s body or personality kind of like the martyrs supposedly experienced?

I'm not sure I follow this. If the soul is naive - and I'm not saying they are, they are perhaps naive just in the sense of assuming the ride is easy, underestimating the difficulty rather, because they're not undergoing it at that moment (having the veil, the conditioning, the sense of time) - why is the human personality different? I don't see the difference. 

You're also saying it's a "disaster" for that upcoming new person, whereas for the 3 people I just posted the disaster was a prelude to an awakening, so it's far from a disaster in the end for these people.

As I remarked, "I" (my human self) would never conceivably choose a pain-filled upcoming incarnation. Regardless of there being benefits to be gained in final spiritual illuminations, etc. That would be the case whether it was the "I" of age 20 or of age 40 or of age 60. That means that whatever being decides on that sort of humanly disastrous path is not "me" - it's by definition somebody else. A "somebody else" that is somehow not aware of the excruciating suffering that can be experienced in the physical, and that has no memories of past physical incarnations.

If the soul in the pre-birth period simply doesn't have memories of the previous physical lives  - no memory of what it is like to live a physical life (especially the terribly painful experiences which  may be protracted), then that is a major fault in the system, since then, decisions on the upcoming incarnation will be made without the most important deciding factors being figured in. 

I wonder if these 3 people would really have chosen their paths if they had known what they would actually encounter. 

It occurs to me that an explanation might be that the soul in the pre-birth period may be forced into such a humanly deleterious decision because yet another Earth life is the only way to continue personal consciousness. It's either Earth with all its combinations of evils and joys, or nothing. Fear of annihilation or nonexistence would be enough. Of course, this explanation would completely conflict with all the sources we have of received spiritual wisdom, but it seems a logical possibility.

[Ninshub]

Just started this one.



Interesting she was born and grew up in Kazahkstan, so another culture.

She had her pre-birth memories just flow back into her at age 4 at a specific moment, and then had a transcendent experience where she could see it all happen again. I noticed she described her soul as like an "excited child" just before incarnating, and soon as she was in the body not liking the cramped and powerless feeling. 

Afterwards she could astral travel, and had telepathic conversation with plants and animals. But she couldn't talk to people that way and found that frustrating. That's very similar to Christian Sundberg who as a young child like this was dumbfounded to realize people couldn't read each other's thoughts and feelings like they could in the non-physical realm.

One thought I'm having is that we tend to think uniformly of these matters - oh it must have to this way or that way for every soul, and then we get stuck in seeming contradictions. But perhaps "people" come in as part of different soul groups that may come from very different "backgrounds" and the mechanics of how everything works may not all be the same.

[Ninshub]

Listening to this one now, not quite half way. This is someone who had an NDE at age 6 and in the course of that experience, through asking questions (who am I? etc.), could see with a lot of detail what pre-birth was like and the choosing of his parents and life. 

I'm kind of disappointed a bit in the picture of this group of "happy but ignorant souls" with which he lived. (This kind of stuff makes me wonder if that isn't just one level of the being, and if a higher self exists that exists also that knows more. Or if some of this is symbolic or not necessarily all exact, or mingled with the human consciousness of the child, who knows?) Physical life was one way of getting an education and growing, but not mandatory. Free will was the key element.

He chose the planet also, among many to choose from.

Interesting bit with his guides where he can choose superficial things he likes (like being handsome), but the spiritual downfall is explained to him to inform his choices. (Interesting too that if chose to be overly intelligent, he'd be an atheist, which he didn't want!)

Queued to where the pre-birth account starts:
https://youtu.be/4HvCz4ql1XE?t=566

[Ninshub]

Very good question by the interviewer at 41 minutes about NDErs falling into camps: a) those who say souls have to grow and evolve, and earth life is for that reason, and b) those who say souls are already perfect as spiritual beings and don't have to learn anything, but come to earth for the experience.

(My own thoughts at this moment: could those two things be true, at different levels, or could they be true depending on who the souls are and what backgrounds/soul groups they belong to?)

Very good question by the interviewer at 41 minutes about NDErs falling into camps: a) those who say souls have to grow and evolve, and earth life is for that reason, and b) those who say souls are already perfect as spiritual beings and don't have to learn anything, but come to earth for the experience.

(My own thoughts at this moment: could those two things be true, at different levels, or could they be true depending on who the souls are and what backgrounds/soul groups they belong to?)

I didn't yet listen to the video, however I'm not sure that there are only two possibilities, (a) and (b). At the very least I might add (c) those who come here to help. (And I see no reason to finish the list here, there could be many more options.)

I suppose more broadly I'm wary of assuming a particular set of beliefs and falling in line with them, one has to be able to let go of expected ideas in order to be able to explore and discover freely.

Interesting too that if chose to be overly intelligent, he'd be an atheist, which he didn't want!

Immediately suspect.  Evidence that some threshold level of intelligence equates to atheism?  I ain't buying that.