Are spirits electromagnetic energy?

At the same time, how do we account for people's minds (or whatever energy they have) seeming to make electromagnetic equipment go haywire?

I bring this up because the same animal medium I brought up earlier in this thread in one of her videos explained how she came to discover she had her abilities and do the work she does. And one of the points in that journey involved her going precisely to an MRI center (attached to the Rhine Center/Duke University in North Carolina, I think, where as a young girl she had been tested and labeled as having abilities, which she didn't do anything about) and having the doctor/radiology professor's X-ray showing equipment react whenever she entered or left the room.

Between 2 and 5.30 minutes approximately:

I don't know, Ian would be the only answer I have. "Spirits" (whatever they are) seem to be able to do that with ease, don't they. But nbtruthman has conclusively (I would say) spelt it out why our minds are not that.

I don't see how anything can be described as conclusive, and thanks Ninshub for bringing this up!

We all agree that there has to be a link of some sort between the two realms - though they are obviously very well screened - some of us argue against the idea that electromagnetism (almost certainly in some expanded form) cannot be involved!

It might be more constructive if we all discussed what exactly the connection between the two realms is - because we know there has to be one.

David

It might be more constructive if we all discussed what exactly the connection between the two realms is - because we know there has to be one.

The phrase 'two realms' implies a separation and hence sends us on a search for a connection between the two. I tend to look at things in terms of 'no separation'. That is we ourselves are already inhabiting both these suggested separate parts. There was a book title I remember from years ago, "A Foot In Both Worlds" and there are others who express things using similar metaphors.

I don't particularly feel any separation from the deceased, when I've had various types of contact myself it has just felt that they are very close, right here, not somewhere else.

Perhaps the only problem to be resolved is how we can command an arm or a finger to move and it will do so. How do our immaterial thoughts control this physical body? But maybe it's like driving a car or even riding a bike, we operate those things according to our thoughts. Of course motor cars and bicycles sometimes break down or don't respond properly - but the same applies to our physical bodies.

If you're feeling motivated to do so... you can...

1) cut a square of any transparent rigid material - tracing paper, thin plastic sheet etc (something that will hold its shape when formed into a cylinder).
2) fold it corner to corner to make a right angled triangle, and crease the edge where it folds (hypotenuse).
3) then unfold the triangle back into a square, and draw a line with a black pen along the crease you made.
4) then bring either of the opposite sides of the square together, to form a cylinder (it doesn't matter which sides you choose)

looking at the cylinder along it's length, you can now view the line you drew, and you will see a nice wave form.

keeping the cylinder in a fixed position, looking at it from the side, and then from the top, you will see that where the wave is at it's peak from a side view (line intersects one edge of the cylinder wall), then at the same point of the line when viewed from above the line is at it's minimum (line is central to both sides of the cylinder wall)

That is analogous to an electromagnetic wave where the electric component is viewed from the top of the cylinder, and the magnetic component is viewed from the side of the cylinder.

The point of this exercise, is to restore the cylinder back into the original flat square shaped 2-dimensional sheet you started with, and realize how one form... can become another form... and so on... and so on...

Circle, square, triangle, hypotenuse, cylinder, wave, and the components from which these are made, like points, lines, angles, sides...

It's only a start, but doing this exercise yourself, is the purpose of my post... as no one can be told... but it might help someone out there lurking...

But maybe it's like driving a car or even riding a bike, we operate those things according to our thoughts. Of course motor cars and bicycles sometimes break down or don't respond properly - but the same applies to our physical bodies.

I'll add again my principle of 'no separation' here. It can be unsound to treat our bodies like something separate such as a machine. While we are in this body, our physical well-being can depend very much on feeling a connectedness with it, to treat our bodies as though they were part of ourself. And then the same applies to the outside world - too often we humans have treated the ground beneath our feet as simply a resource to be used, not as something of which we are a part. That sense of separation of ourselves from the planet is a harmful concept, seeing the world and its lifeforms as part of something "other" leads to their neglect or destruction. My personal regret is the loss of such things as tropical rainforest and the natural habitats of lifeforms such as gorillas, elephants, orang utans, tigers as well as the myriad smaller creatures and organisms. All this arises from the concept of separation.

Can one agree with @tim and @David001 at the same time...while also maybe disagreeing with both?

Spirituality & Light - What/Why the connection?

I really hope so, because I am one such person!

I mean when Michael Persinger was claiming that ESP was an electromagnetic phenomenon, I definitely disagreed with him. He argued that very low frequency radio waves were responsible, but a VLF wave can't carry much information, and there would be thousands if not millions of people radiating on this band if the idea were true. I actually managed to contact his research student, and we corresponded for a short while, before he said, that in science you have to go with the best hypothesis available - in other words he didn't believe it himself.

OTH, there are accounts of mystical states that begin gradually with a change in light.......

In other words ordinary electromagnetic light can continuously transform into the other type of light.

David

[Ninshub]

Although in those cases it may not be EM light transforming into the Light, but both being involved, some kind of resonance.

I really hope so, because I am one such person!

I mean when Michael Persinger was claiming that ESP was an electromagnetic phenomenon, I definitely disagreed with him. He argued that very low frequency radio waves were responsible, but a VLF wave can't carry much information, and there would be thousands if not millions of people radiating on this band if the idea were true. I actually managed to contact his research student, and we corresponded for a short while, before he said, that in science you have to go with the best hypothesis available - in other words he didn't believe it himself.

OTH, there are accounts of mystical states that begin gradually with a change in light.......

In other words ordinary electromagnetic light can continuously transform into the other type of light.

David

I'm not shocked at the research student's reply.  In formal setting context is king.  It acceptable to objectively embrace new concepts, but if subjective acceptance is obvious, bias is an issue.

Liking your suggestion, that natural light and inner lights are connected, I propose that it may be that there are separate environments (with separate units of measure) and exchange structure and functional activity.  Think of it as analogous to a catalytic process.  

From Whitehouse:  as the summary of - Modes of Thought (Gifford Lectures)

  The qualities entertained as objects in conceptual activity are of the nature of catalytic agents, in the sense in which the phrase is used in chemistry.  They modify the aesthetic process by which the occasion constitutes itself out of the many streams of feeling received from the past.

This idea of Whitehead's has helped shape my thinking.  Mental conceptions can exert influence on physical things - not directly - but by aligning the physical nature with states of information.  When you know something useful - the probabilities for behavior change.

For me, such ideas as electromagnetic energy and frequency, vibration and so on are not to be taken to mean the same thing that they do in physics and mainstream science. The ideas may be taken metaphorically, mystically, poetically and in that way might have some ability to express an idea. But to take such terms literally, to imagine that spirits are composed of photons causes problems, it is an obstacle to trying to make sense of things.

If someone such as a medium has something interesting to say then fine. But I'd suggest filtering out the parts where it is pretended that the language of established mainstream science is to be taken at face value. Remember that there is a very broad audience, the general public listening to the ideas of such people. Most of the audience will have very little idea about the meanings of a lot of scientific terms, it is important to consider who are the target audience.

We on this forum vary in our backgrounds but in general we ask a lot more questions than is probably expected. Because of that we see through the language more readily. The difficulty is where to stop. When asking questions and filtering out the parts which don't make sense, it may seem that little or nothing remains. That would be a shame, I'm not suggesting to dismiss messages from a medium entirely just because of unfortunate choice of phrasing. There are other ways to weigh and evaluate such messages. Whether or not we feel someone is sharing something of value is not dependent only on the surface appearance, the packaging in which it is wrapped.

Do you mean actually censoring links in some way? I'm definitely against that. I wince at definite misuse of scientific ideas, but honestly, nobody knows where to draw the line - what do you do with expressions like "vibrational state"?

David

For me, such ideas as electromagnetic energy and frequency, vibration and so on are not to be taken to mean the same thing that they do in physics and mainstream science. The ideas may be taken metaphorically, mystically, poetically and in that way might have some ability to express an idea. But to take such terms literally, to imagine that spirits are composed of photons causes problems, it is an obstacle to trying to make sense of things.

If someone such as a medium has something interesting to say then fine. But I'd suggest filtering out the parts where it is pretended that the language of established mainstream science is to be taken at face value. Remember that there is a very broad audience, the general public listening to the ideas of such people. Most of the audience will have very little idea about the meanings of a lot of scientific terms, it is important to consider who are the target audience.

We on this forum vary in our backgrounds but in general we ask a lot more questions than is probably expected. Because of that we see through the language more readily. The difficulty is where to stop. When asking questions and filtering out the parts which don't make sense, it may seem that little or nothing remains. That would be a shame, I'm not suggesting to dismiss messages from a medium entirely just because of unfortunate choice of phrasing. There are other ways to weigh and evaluate such messages. Whether or not we feel someone is sharing something of value is not dependent only on the surface appearance, the packaging in which it is wrapped.

I would say 1000% this. Mediums are not scientists, if a medium starts talking about elctromagnetic energy I'm likely to take them less seriously cause they obviously don't know what they're on about outside of the feelings they're getting. Leave the research of the means of mediumistic communication to the scientists that can study it properly, lest we fall into legitimate woo territory. 

If spirits are some kind of electromagnetic energy though it's gonna be fun when the heat death of the universe comes about.

[Ninshub]

 if a medium starts talking about elctromagnetic energy I'm likely to take them less seriously cause they obviously don't know what they're on about outside of the feelings they're getting.

I agree with you general sentiment, however I wouldn't put it as sharply. A medium can be an ordinary person with only so much education in certain areas so I give them slack. Also depending on the medium just saying "feelings" diminishes what they experience. Some, like the lady I posted about, actually sees the spirit of the animal talking, with spirit "mouths" and the whole 9 yard, the same way she "sees" what's going on in human (or animal) bodies: see the organs working in great visual detail as if seeing your body through an X-ray.

The genuine article is a person with extraordinary gifts, incredibly precious for the rest of us.