I really love this quote by Evelyn Waugh:
To know all is to forgive all.
I think it gets to the heart of forgiveness, because when you truly understand something, you probably know why someone’s done something ‘bad’ or ‘stupid’ or ‘good’. You can probably think up examples that tend to disprove it, but, for me, it’s a great quote.
Oh my God, I hate all this.
Ok, as a step along the road. Though to me it hints at conditionality. That is, would we withhold from forgiveness on the grounds of our own lack of knowledge? I'm just stepping along the road, but the older I get and the more mistakes I've seen myself make, the more inclined I am to forgive others while knowing nothing of their circumstances. I say inclined towards. I can't guarantee I actually do so
(This post was last modified: 2020-04-22, 03:59 PM by Typoz.)
Does this presuppose the notion that evil doesn't exist?
(2020-04-22, 03:58 PM)Typoz Wrote: Ok, as a step along the road. Though to me it hints at conditionality. That is, would we withhold from forgiveness on the grounds of our own lack of knowledge? I'm just stepping along the road, but the older I get and the more mistakes I've seen myself make, the more inclined I am to forgive others while knowing nothing of their circumstances. I say inclined towards. I can't guarantee I actually do so
Yes, I probably like this quote so much because to me it backs up Tom Campbell and many others idea that our lives are about learning to become love.
Along the road we surely fail, withholding forgiveness through ignorance.
Ultimately though, as we grow and become closer to pure love, or putting it a different way, closer to our true selves, which is God, our forgiveness grows along with our understanding. (A long way further on than in this life for me anyhow, it’s a long, long road)
Oh my God, I hate all this.
(This post was last modified: 2020-04-22, 04:32 PM by Stan Woolley.)
(2020-04-22, 04:13 PM)Silence Wrote: Does this presuppose the notion that evil doesn't exist?
I don’t hear NDErs saying God forgives everything, but not really evil stuff!!!
There is a passage in The Prophet, which says:
“It is when your spirit goes wandering upon the wind,
That you, alone and unguarded, commit a wrong unto others and therefore unto yourself.
And for that wrong committed must you knock and wait a while unheeded at the gate of the blessed.”
I don’t know what this means, but it hints at paying some type of penance for wrong doings. I await my life review with interest.
Oh my God, I hate all this.
(2020-04-22, 04:27 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: I don’t hear NDErs saying God forgives everything, but not really evil stuff!!!
There is a passage in The Prophet, which says:
“It is when your spirit goes wandering upon the wind,
That you, alone and unguarded, commit a wrong unto others and therefore unto yourself.
And for that wrong committed must you knock and wait a while unheeded at the gate of the blessed.”
I don’t know what this means, but it hints at paying some type of penance for wrong doings. I await my life review with interest.
I guess I'm asking if there is a distinction between human beings, for example, doing bad things and evil.
For the former, if it could be parsed that way, I would agree with the quote: Forgiveness is the way. For the latter, I'm not so sure. I mean say demons actually exist: Knowing all doesn't make me feel like I'd want to forgive the demon.
(2020-04-22, 07:04 PM)Silence Wrote: I guess I'm asking if there is a distinction between human beings, for example, doing bad things and evil.
For the former, if it could be parsed that way, I would agree with the quote: Forgiveness is the way. For the latter, I'm not so sure. I mean say demons actually exist: Knowing all doesn't make me feel like I'd want to forgive the demon.
You don’t know all yet. Perhaps when eventually you do, you will change your mind.
Oh my God, I hate all this.
(2020-04-22, 07:12 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: You don’t know all yet. Perhaps when eventually you do, you will change your mind.
I don't know. Tough for me to gloss over the problem of evil with a promissory note from a novelist who appears to have no specially enlightened perspective or experience.
I like the quote very much, but still with some moderation.
There is behaviour that cannot be justified but that aside, if we are to truly forgive, we must have some understanding of people at least to the point of understanding that they are human, and therefore fallible. It can help if we know ourselves and accept that we have done bad things in our lives. Strangely enough, it's often ourselves that we don't forgive very easily.
Not directly dealing with Stan's quote but related; the problem of evil is arguably the greatest excuse for not believing in a creator. But how could a creator create beings with free will, that are incapable of evil ? God (whatever that is) must have evil in him/her as well as unconditional love. I never understood the platitudes dished out from scripture about God only being love. It can't be right.
"because when you truly understand something, you probably know why someone’s done something ‘bad’ "
'I'm not going to post examples of where that fails, Stan. It wouldn't be helpful and I'm sure you are aware anyway. (you are still fully entitled to like the quote, though)
(This post was last modified: 2020-04-22, 10:22 PM by tim.)
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