An excellent concise and accurate statement of the interactive dualism theory of mind

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(2025-01-29, 11:20 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: So if I understand this correctly the Dualism has little to nothing to do with Survival evidence but rather is a Dualism between Persons and that which is Impersonal, whatever the Impersonal is - Matter, Fields, Platonic Maths + Universals, etc?

Yes, with three clarifications:

Firstly, it's not that the dualism itself has nothing to do with survival, but that the argument I've presented for it here has nothing to do with survival. An argument from (evidence of) survival could also be made though.

Secondly, it's not just (substance) dualism in general for which I'm arguing, but interactive (substance) dualism. That rules out such dualisms as epiphenomenalism, which is not interactive but one-way.

Thirdly, I'd exclude Platonic maths and universals from the possibilities for the second, impersonal substance on interactive dualism, because (1) they are changeless, and thus cannot truly be interacted with in the relevant sense, and (2) to count them as a substance in the necessary sense would be to mistakenly reify them.

(2025-01-29, 11:20 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: I mean if that's the case I would agree that all metaphysics outside of Monadology would probably be Dualisms of a sort

Not interactive dualisms. That, it seems to me, is very exclusive. Physicalism and idealism (including cosmopsychism) are substance monisms, on which there is no second substance with which to interact. Epiphenomenalism (including as a property dualism) is a substance dualism but a non-interactive one. Panpsychism etc (where basic entities combine to form composite entities) is essentially epiphenomenalist in nature and thus non-interactive: the consciousness associated with each basic entity just "hangs off" it as a sort of property.

What else is there?

(2025-01-29, 11:20 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: and possibly would include Monadology depending on whether a Causal Network is part of God

Leibniz's Monadology doesn't seem to entail a causal network, and if some other purported pluralistic idealism did, then wouldn't truly be an idealism, because this causal network would be or entail a substance other than mind and its experience.

(2025-01-29, 11:20 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: But wouldn't this apply to most Idealisms if they divide what is Conscious and what is in Consciousness?

"What is in Consciousness" is not a separate substance, but an aspect of the substance which is the person ("what is Conscious"), so that distinction is irrelevant to interactive substance dualism.

(2025-01-29, 11:20 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: Even most Physicalisms save for those (Type-B or some such?) that try to claim pains/thoughts/etc just *are* Structures would be Dualist in this sense?

Can you give an example of such a physicalism?

(2025-01-29, 11:20 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: The only exceptions besides Monadology I can think of then would maybe be the Pan-isms, though even there you might have Pluralisms if for example non-Divine Persons are conscious fields while "God" is a Mind identified with the fabric of space itself (Itself?)...this would still be a "Person-only" ontology but with some extended elements that all have mental character but are, for other reasons, to be regarded as different substances.

So, on these views, God as a person would be of a different substance to all other persons, and God and all other persons would interact. I suppose that that might fit the definition of an interactive substance dualism, but it's not the sort you stipulated at the start, and which I endorse: that between persons and the impersonal.

(2025-01-29, 11:20 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: I like the Game World analogy, I was thinking of the question in similar terms. I can go deeper into that part but I want to make sure I am understanding the basic argument first. Thumbs Up

Please do feel free to go deeper if you think you understand now.
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RE: An excellent concise and accurate statement of the interactive dualism theory of mind - by Laird - 2025-01-31, 01:46 AM

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