Psience Quest

(2017-08-16, 07:06 PM)Vortex Wrote: [ -> ]In such a scenario, I would advice Alex to change the name of the podcast / forum to "Infowarrico".

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As for conspiracy theories... We cannot avoid them completely for the two reasons:

1) real conspiracies do happen, and ignoring this fact won't help;

2) some conspiracy theories are notably better than the most, and do deserve some intellectual contemplation (that's why 9/11 Truth and JFK Assasination, as well as Deep Politics analysis in general, have some genuinely rational thinkers like David Ray Griffin in their ranks).

Yet I would also agree that many - not all, but many - conspiracy theories are indeed sheer nonsense ("global depopulation agenda", Pizzagate and many others fit this description neatly).

And, as I once said on Skeptiko, looking into them is like walking on a thin ice - every step should be taken very carefully.

So, I think that providing them a special subsection is good choice - this way, we will allow conspiracy controversies to become a legitimate subject of debate (which they should be) without allowing them to spread across the whole forum and dominate it (which has happened on Skeptiko, and which we should prevent).

Discussions going into conspiracy controversies should be transferred to the relevant special subsection, with exception of the ones which are directly related to the main topic of the forum. Such directly related, and thus allowed beyond the special subsection, conspiracy controversies should be:

1) organised and (temporarily and/or partially) covert misdeeds of the paranormal skeptics, such as sTARBABY scandal, Randi's Alpha Project, Guerilla Skepticism on Wikipedia, etc.;

2) corruption and repression in science and medicine - for example, Big Pharma's buying of medical doctors and scientists, attacks on cold fusion / LENR research, etc.

Such is my opinion.

You said- "1) real conspiracies do happen, and ignoring this fact won't help;"

Car accidents happen, cancer happens, terrorism happens, birthday parties happen, baseball games happen, Christmas happens, rock concerts happen,, should we have sections for them too?

I'll ask the question again since I still haven't seen an answer to this basic question: 
what is it that makes conspiracy theories so special, among all the possible things that are not directly related to psi, that they should attract all this attention? Is it just because Alex had a strange affinity for them, and that attracted people who also do, and those people are now part of the community and those people want to see this continue? Is that THE reason? 

If so, let's just say so and then decide. Saying that "they happen" is not a very good answer,,,, is it?

(2017-08-22, 02:23 PM)jkmac Wrote: [ -> ]You said- "1) real conspiracies do happen, and ignoring this fact won't help;"

Car accidents happen, cancer happens, terrorism happens, birthday parties happen, baseball games happen, Christmas happens, rock concerts happen,, should we have sections for them too?

I'll ask the question again since I still haven't seen an answer to this basic question: 
what is it that makes conspiracy theories so special, among all the possible things that are not directly related to psi, that they should attract all this attention? Is it just because Alex had a strange affinity for them, and that attracted people who also do, and those people are now part of the community and those people want to see this continue? Is that THE reason? 

If so, let's just say so and then decide. Saying that "they happen" is not a very good answer,,,, is it?

But crypid, UFO and physical mediumship discussions are OK evidently. It just seems pretty arbitrary. I'm not interested in a full blown discussion on 9/11 or JFK. I agree that has no place here. But some subjects, like UFOs, will sometimes touch on conspiracy or organized disinformation.

I can understand UFOs, or cover ups like the supposed ones that happen re: park disappearances, will bring in some measure of conspiracy theory talk.

Skeptiko existed for years with minimal examination of political CTs, or even convos about "which religion is the right one" (minus Alex's obsession with proving Christianity conclusively false).

Have to admit when Jkmac posts it makes senses, there doesn't seem to be a real need for a forum dedicated to politics or one dedicated to CTs? I mean political threads were largely people posting links, and Alex seemed happy to delete the CT threads in Other Stuff even though his own show encouraged such discussion.

Really curious how to handle posts that accuse people of crimes even when no one would have a real criminal case, and even publication of such crimes would result in a libel suit. Seems like this is a good way to end up as Skeptiko's trash bin where the show can go on at length regarding CTs in the way Alex insists, but then controversial "Jews did it" type people he draws in just migrate here.

(2017-08-22, 03:34 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like this is a good way to end up as Skeptiko's trash bin where the show can go on at length regarding CTs in the way Alex insists, but then controversial "Jews did it" type people he draws in just migrate here.

You keep bringing this up. Who are the "jews did it" type people?

One observation to add:

I joined Skeptiko within the past year. At the start it seemed very focused on consciousness research and (much to my interest) a healthy debate between physicalists/materialists and the "non". The shows seemed to be in sync with these topics when I first joined.

Subsequently, as the shows moved in their current direction the focus seemed to change in the forums. Instead of interesting content related to consciousness the CT and anti-Christian themes seemed to take over.

Point? The CT discussion didn't seem to be an issue until recently. When the forum was "healthy" I'm guessing the CT discussions lived in relative harmony within the community. (The SH thread is my prime example as I thought the whole thing was ridiculous yet it had been an ongoing thread for years. It clearly hadn't dominated the forum.)

So, presuming we have a healthy focus on the subjects at the core of this community, is there really a need to over engineer controls on topics like CTs?

(2017-08-22, 03:46 PM)Silence Wrote: [ -> ]One observation to add:

I joined Skeptiko within the past year.  At the start it seemed very focused on consciousness research and (much to my interest) a healthy debate between physicalists/materialists and the "non".  The shows seemed to be in sync with these topics when I first joined.

Subsequently, as the shows moved in their current direction the focus seemed to change in the forums.  Instead of interesting content related to consciousness the CT and anti-Christian themes seemed to take over.

Point?  The CT discussion didn't seem to be an issue until recently.  When the forum was "healthy" I'm guessing the CT discussions lived in relative harmony within the community.  (The SH thread is my prime example as I thought the whole thing was ridiculous yet it had been an ongoing thread for years.  It clearly hadn't dominated the forum.)

So, presuming we have a healthy focus on the subjects at the core of this community, is there really a need to over engineer controls on topics like CTs?

The forum moved from mind-energy.net in 2013. Alex had already done several podcasts on UFOs and at lease one with Joseph Atwill before moving to the zenforo version.

(2017-08-22, 03:40 PM)chuck Wrote: [ -> ]You keep bringing this up. Who are the "jews did it" type people?

Just my placeholder for any conspiracy theory that would be beyond the pale for this forum.

(2017-08-22, 04:21 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: [ -> ]Just my placeholder for any conspiracy theory that would be beyond the pale for this forum.

I honestly don't think we are very far apart on this issue. I don't think anyone should be accused of a crime. We have discussed Aquino in the past, but I think that is relevant in a discussion on magic. But participants should be careful to use the same language as any normal publication. If someone is accused, but not convicted, then that is an important distinction. Rumors alone probably don't need to be discussed.

I don't have any interest in have a separate forum for politics or CT. But I do want to be able to have threads that might touch on MKULTRA, UFOs, MILAB and the possibility of matrix style control systems.

I DO NOT want to discuss 9/11, global warming science, JFK, Trump or globalist politics.

(2017-08-22, 03:06 PM)chuck Wrote: [ -> ]But crypid, UFO and physical mediumship discussions are OK evidently. It just seems pretty arbitrary. I'm not interested in a full blown discussion on 9/11 or JFK. I agree that has no place here. But some subjects, like UFOs, will sometimes touch on conspiracy or organized disinformation.

Et tu Chuck? Et tu 

"I DO NOT want to discuss 9/11, global warming science, JFK, Trump or globalist politics."

We get it, we hear you!!! 

(2017-08-22, 03:06 PM)chuck Wrote: [ -> ]But crypid, UFO and physical mediumship discussions are OK evidently. It just seems pretty arbitrary. I'm not interested in a full blown discussion on 9/11 or JFK. I agree that has no place here. But some subjects, like UFOs, will sometimes touch on conspiracy or organized disinformation.

Ummm yeah. I would say of course these should be OK to discuss. 


re- UFOs-
There are LOTs of people including myself, that are coming to the conclusion that UFOs just may not be entirely physical things. This would explain lots of things about them: like for example why in a group of people, why some see them and others don't. How they could travel such distances, why they don't seem to be limited by basic physics and laws of motion. The non verbal communication aspect of many abduction stories. 

Bottom line is: there are many that believe UFO's and "aliens" may be metaphysical in nature, and as such, would certainly be appropriate in a psi forum.

re- Physical Mediumship-
I am maybe missing something here. I assume you agree that mediumship is clearly psi related. Why would you suggest that physical mediumship isn't? Out of the numerous type of physical mediumship, I might point to the "Scole experiments", as one of the most famous of them all. Are you suggesting that this isn't and shouldn't be considered a type of psi? If so you've completely lost me.

Bottom line: I don't think this is a borderline case at all. It belongs smack dab in the middle of any comprehensive discussion of psi, or review of the continuity of consciousness, AKA: a discussion about the non-physical aspect of our reality..

As several have said many times in earlier posts--- if a discussion about a psi topic happens upon a conspiracy: that's totally fine and expected. This however is not the same thing as a section of the site dedicated to conspiracy topics of all kinds,,, such as 911 government complicity, or the JFK assassination, or whether we landed on the moon, or whether Elvis is actually dead. These things have no place here. Full stop.

Once again: I fail to see the complexity of this issue. If something THIS simple is tying people in knots, I have my doubts about the ability of some in this group to grasp something of ACTUAL complexity and nuance.