(2017-08-25, 05:20 PM)k9! Wrote: [ -> ]While I can understand some people here were upset with Alex for making changes to his forum, I don't understand the need to troll the Skeptiko forum now that a new forum has been established. Alex isn't perfect, but he provided a forum and he gave us a lot of great shows to enjoy for a number of years. He did it all on his own dime. There were never any ads on the show. And he made it clear from the start that it was his journey and it was going to go wherever it took him.
I'm grateful for what Alex did for us. I didn't always agree with how he did it, but he's given a lot to this community.
That's why it disgusts me to see people from here going over to ruin the fun of those who would still like to hang out at Skeptiko. I won't name names, but it's pretty obvious who is doing it. If you want to bitch about Skeptiko over here or in your blogs. that's your business. But why troll Skeptiko?
Anyway, this isn't a forum I want to belong to anymore. I was asked to be a founding member, but I had misgivings about it and declined the offer. I figured that I would wait and see how things went with it. But I don't want to be a part of this. I do wish you all well and hope your new forum is a success.
I'd like to comment on a few things here.
Firstly, I don't condone trolling anywhere, anytime but I don't think it is fair to characterise this forum or its founders that way.
I had big problems with the way Alex acted in removing long-standing sub-foums. He compounded that authoritarian act by banning many of us for complaining. But I aired my gripes on Skeptiko before this forum was even suggested and I was banned for it (and I've been posting at Skeptiko longer than most).
You were party to the conversation that we had about founding this forum and I'm sorry if you got the impression that it was some kind of spiteful act but that is not the impression I was getting. Apart from Alex's sudden authoritarian actions, we were concerned about the long-term direction which appears to focus on conspiracy theories rather than the spiritual and scientific that Skeptiko had become known for.
Alex set up the forums as a community (it says so at the top of the forum page) yet it is not a very community-minded act to trash years of discussion because those discussions don't focus on the Leader's views as expressed on his podcasts. You are right, Alex created a marvellous platform for all of us. I don't understand why he's taken the direction he has but I'm hoping that we, here, can continue the good work he started.
I wish Alex all the best and I'm sure I'm speaking for the other founders.
(2017-08-25, 09:03 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to comment on a few things here.
Firstly, I don't condone trolling anywhere, anytime but I don't think it is fair to characterise this forum or its founders that way.
I had big problems with the way Alex acted in removing long-standing sub-foums. He compounded that authoritarian act by banning many of us for complaining. But I aired my gripes on Skeptiko before this forum was even suggested and I was banned for it (and I've been posting at Skeptiko longer than most).
You were party to the conversation that we had about founding this forum and I'm sorry if you got the impression that it was some kind of spiteful act but that is not the impression I was getting. Apart from Alex's sudden authoritarian actions, we were concerned about the long-term direction which appears to focus on conspiracy theories rather than the spiritual and scientific that Skeptiko had become known for.
Alex set up the forums as a community (it says so at the top of the forum page) yet it is not a very community-minded act to trash years of discussion because those discussions don't focus on the Leader's views as expressed on his podcasts. You are right, Alex created a marvellous platform for all of us. I don't understand why he's taken the direction he has but I'm hoping that we, here, can continue the good work he started.
I wish Alex all the best and I'm sure I'm speaking for the other founders.
This morning's trolling of the Skeptiko forum by Chuck seemed very spiteful. And judging by the likes, his behavior seems to have supporters here, including among the founders. Trolling the old forum doesn't just affect Alex. It makes it unpleasant for those of us who would like to save what's there.
I'm glad there is a new forum set up for those who want it, but if this forum is to become a troll haven, that's not very appealing to me. My understanding was that this forum was never meant to replace Skeptiko and that both forums could coexist peacefully. Things weren't very peaceful this morning.
I'm signing off now. I do wish you all well.
I vented for a few days after being banned at Skeptiko, but... What's the point of trolling Alex? I mean, just look at the forum... It's dying a slow death, Alex's gamble is not working out... Skeptiko is not competing with Infowars et al. anytime soon, there is no influx of new users. I say that it's time to just let it be.
Do I hear Taps for Skeptiko playing softly?
(2017-08-25, 10:59 PM)k9! Wrote: [ -> ]This morning's trolling of the Skeptiko forum by Chuck seemed very spiteful. And judging by the likes, his behavior seems to have supporters here, including among the founders. Trolling the old forum doesn't just affect Alex. It makes it unpleasant for those of us who would like to save what's there.
I'm glad there is a new forum set up for those who want it, but if this forum is to become a troll haven, that's not very appealing to me. My understanding was that this forum was never meant to replace Skeptiko and that both forums could coexist peacefully. Things weren't very peaceful this morning.
I'm signing off now. I do wish you all well.
That's my understanding too. Many people here are still members there - including some of the founders. It is just a difference of emphasis: Alex seems to want to control the discussions so that he (or his interests) are front and centre. That's fine: it is his forum, he can do as he pleases. We decided that we didn't want a situation where one person could decide, at a stroke, to bit-bucket years of debates.
Our policy is to ban trolls although it is a strange concept that we should be expected to ban those who don't troll us but troll elsewhere. Nevertheless, perhaps that should be a valid consideration and we should discuss it.
Alex, as innocent victim seems like a bit of a stretch in my opinion. Patience in all things, this too shall pass.
Everyone was emotionally invested in Skeptiko. There is bound to be some wrongheaded things said.
(2017-08-25, 10:59 PM)k9! Wrote: [ -> ]This morning's trolling of the Skeptiko forum by Chuck seemed very spiteful. And judging by the likes, his behavior seems to have supporters here, including among the founders. Trolling the old forum doesn't just affect Alex. It makes it unpleasant for those of us who would like to save what's there.
I'm glad there is a new forum set up for those who want it, but if this forum is to become a troll haven, that's not very appealing to me. My understanding was that this forum was never meant to replace Skeptiko and that both forums could coexist peacefully. Things weren't very peaceful this morning.
I'm signing off now. I do wish you all well.
Ciao, Sandy! Wish you well.
I consider K9 a friend. Everyone is allowed to express themselves here, even though I disagree with some of what she's said in this thread.
In any event, if this needs to be said in the first place, rest assured there is no pressure being felt by the admins.
(2017-08-26, 02:37 PM)Max_B Wrote: [ -> ]That must be wrong, because many members (like myself) have been prevented from posting to SF by Bailey and Tsakaris. For these members, psiencequest.net obviously does replace SF.
Let's tell that fairly.
Actually, you had taken to being extremely rude to me on a series of occasions, knowing (or suspecting) that I would not intervene on my own account. Alex saw what you were writing, and asked you to contact him before resuming posting - which you decided not to do so. One brief discussion was all you needed to return (I guess you still can if you want).
I don't get paid to moderate the forum, I do it because I very much appreciate what that forum is about, but neither did I enjoy being regularly criticised in public for the actions I took. What few people realised, was that I spent quite some time emailing certain users, trying to get them to moderate their behaviour - you only saw the end result. I pointed out on several occasions that anyone was free to PM me about anything they were unhappy about. You did not do so.
My aim is to help SKEPTIKO get back on its feet again.
David