UFOs: Reframing the Debate

Courtesy of the Daily Grail - the SPR has an enthusiastic review by Chris Jensen Romer of a collection of essays edited by Robbie Graham, entitled "UFOs: Reframing the Debate", which was published last year:
https://www.spr.ac.uk/book-review/ufos-r...bie-graham

Romer particularly likes the essays by Joshua Cutchin and Susan Demeter-St Clair, which argue that UFOs are "parapsychological events". But he sees the superficial treatment of parapsychological research as a symptom of the division between UFOlogy and parapsychology. Nevertheless, he ends by saying "I have no hesitation in recommending this book, even to those who normally have little interest in the UFO mystery."

It's interesting to contrast this with a review of the same book by the late Peter Rogerson which appeared at the Magonia Review last July:
http://pelicanist.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/framing.html

Roger thought it was "well worth reading particularly for newcomers to the subject", but also complained that there was little truly new in it, and saw the unwitting repetition of old ideas as a symptom of the loss of our history in the Internet age. 

But perhaps the difference between the two reviews also reflects the divergence between UFOlogy and parapsychology that Romer discussed.

Even if it is a reworking of old stuff, maybe we need to keep new generations informed of our best theories on the subject.  Once upon a time I wouldn't have considered reading Sartre but there was enough mention of his philosophy in more modern books to get me interested.  So maybe the old books won't do for new generations, but maybe their theories are still the best we have to discuss and maybe oldies like me would like to recap on information but with a fresh approach.  I think the book serves a purpose.

Courtesy of the Daily Grail - the SPR has an enthusiastic review by Chris Jensen Romer of a collection of essays edited by Robbie Graham, entitled "UFOs: Reframing the Debate", which was published last year:
https://www.spr.ac.uk/book-review/ufos-r...bie-graham

Romer particularly likes the essays by Joshua Cutchin and Susan Demeter-St Clair, which argue that UFOs are "parapsychological events". But he sees the superficial treatment of parapsychological research as a symptom of the division between UFOlogy and parapsychology. Nevertheless, he ends by saying "I have no hesitation in recommending this book, even to those who normally have little interest in the UFO mystery."

It's interesting to contrast this with a review of the same book by the late Peter Rogerson which appeared at the Magonia Review last July:
http://pelicanist.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/framing.html

Roger thought it was "well worth reading particularly for newcomers to the subject", but also complained that there was little truly new in it, and saw the unwitting repetition of old ideas as a symptom of the loss of our history in the Internet age. 

But perhaps the difference between the two reviews also reflects the divergence between UFOlogy and parapsychology that Romer discussed.

It's due time we did reframe the debate.  My opinion, ETH has gotten us virtually nowhere.  This isn't to say that I believe the ETH to be totally invalid.  I just think given what we know (the apparent similarities between UFOs and other paranormal phenomena etc etc on and, and the extraordinarily bizarre nature of the abduction/contactee scenarios, it seems apparent that something beyond our comprehension is going on.  I just read Jacque Vallees "Messengers of Deception."  The book outlines the bizarre nature of the phenomena and the effect it has on the contactees/abductees and even society as a whole.  The phenomena seems spiritual in nature and highly paranormal.  We need other theories (to go along with ETH) if we are going to attempt to increase our understanding.

It's due time we did reframe the debate.  My opinion, ETH has gotten us virtually nowhere.  This isn't to say that I believe the ETH to be totally invalid.  I just think given what we know (the apparent similarities between UFOs and other paranormal phenomena etc etc on and, and the extraordinarily bizarre nature of the abduction/contactee scenarios, it seems apparent that something beyond our comprehension is going on.  I just read Jacque Vallees "Messengers of Deception."  The book outlines the bizarre nature of the phenomena and the effect it has on the contactees/abductees and even society as a whole.  The phenomena seems spiritual in nature and highly paranormal.  We need other theories (to go along with ETH) if we are going to attempt to increase our understanding.

One thing that's always puzzled me: How does a largely psychic (or non-material) phenomena leave physical trace evidence (burns/metal/etc.)? 

But I suppose there are other phenomena that do the same, apports being one example. Apports are material objects that drop from the sky/ceiling around mystics or during seances and poltergeist activity.... Now, I should mention that until recently I wrote the entire concept off as the result of fraud, but this video with Dr. Stanley Krippner changed my mind:

One thing that's always puzzled me: How does a largely psychic (or non-material) phenomena leave physical trace evidence (burns/metal/etc.)? 

But I suppose there are other phenomena that do the same, apports being one example. Apports are material objects that drop from the sky/ceiling around mystics or during seances and poltergeist activity.... Now, I should mention that until recently I wrote the entire concept off as the result of fraud, but this video with Dr. Stanley Krippner changed my mind:

Well the ET hypothesis does have the advantage of tying things up fairly neatly.Where  psi bleeding into the physical world is, 
opening the door to black tide of occult mud. And who knows what else.
(Kudos for the krippner interview)

One thing that's always puzzled me: How does a largely psychic (or non-material) phenomena leave physical trace evidence (burns/metal/etc.)? 

But I suppose there are other phenomena that do the same, apports being one example. Apports are material objects that drop from the sky/ceiling around mystics or during seances and poltergeist activity.... Now, I should mention that until recently I wrote the entire concept off as the result of fraud, but this video with Dr. Stanley Krippner changed my mind:

And just when you think you might have a handle on all this. https://www.dailygrail.com/2018/05/jacqu...en-alloys/

One thing that's always puzzled me: How does a largely psychic (or non-material) phenomena leave physical trace evidence (burns/metal/etc.)? 

But I suppose there are other phenomena that do the same, apports being one example. Apports are material objects that drop from the sky/ceiling around mystics or during seances and poltergeist activity.... Now, I should mention that until recently I wrote the entire concept off as the result of fraud, but this video with Dr. Stanley Krippner changed my mind:

Right.  There may be a force which is capable of generating physical and non-physical phenomena and is capable of shifting between the two at will. Or Theres two separate forces at play, one physical and one mental (which would seem strange because they appear clearly related).

Well the ET hypothesis does have the advantage of tying things up fairly neatly.Where  psi bleeding into the physical world is, 
opening the door to black tide of occult mud. And who knows what else.
(Kudos for the krippner interview)

I dont think its neat at all, my opinion.  I do think it has substantial explanatory power, but when you consider everything, particularly the abduction scenarios and the similarities between abduction and other paranormal experiences such as NDE's, hauntings, cryptobeast encounters etc, the more I find it lacking.  It would be easy to right those reported experiences off as false, but the more Ive dived into the issue, the more ive found many of these witnesses to be amongst some of the most credible.  The close encounter and and abduction scenarios are off the charts bizarre. Of course, I don't think we currently have a theory with full explanatory power, Im not sure were supposed to or ever will.  To me, its the most bizarre mystery of all time, EASILY.

There are other things with the ETH which I struggle with.  While I realize one should be careful when attempting to understand alien purposes and motives, their behavior seems absolutely absurd.  Take the Zanfretta case, for example.  Lots of corroborating evidence, including several eye witness testimonies.  But listen to the absurdness in the ETs behavior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0DgGADgAas&t=4s

More absudity in the link below.   It almost appears as if their behavior is absurd for the simple sake of being absurd.  Vallee contends that this is part of their coverup.  That they are attempting to affect societal change, while trying to with-hold proof of their existence from the mainstream. He contends that part of their coverup is their cloaking themselves in absurdity, so as to be rejected by mainstream.  Curiously enough, I find this behavior to be somewhat similar and in keeping with other paranormal phenomena.  They show themselves, but are particularly adept and determined at with-holding proof.   Check out this case from the old USSR, dozens of witnesses.  It was studied by Vallee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OifyUP0Elw&t=3s

More absudity in the link below.   It almost appears as if their behavior is absurd for the simple sake of being absurd.  Vallee contends that this is part of their coverup.  That they are attempting to affect societal change, while trying to with-hold proof of their existence from the mainstream. He contends that part of their coverup is their cloaking themselves in absurdity, so as to be rejected by mainstream.  Curiously enough, I find this behavior to be somewhat similar and in keeping with other paranormal phenomena.  They show themselves, but are particularly adept and determined at with-holding proof.   Check out this case from the old USSR, dozens of witnesses.  It was studied by Vallee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OifyUP0Elw&t=3s

I don't  disagree with anything you've  written. The point i was attempting to convey, is that as soon as one attempts to take a position, any position.  The phenomenon, or whatever it is, displays an uncanny kmack for  providing  you evidence to the contrary.