There are no aliens

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I started this thread in the skeptics section of the forum to express my thoughts on the ‘aliens’ subject.

There are no aliens on this planet, at least not in a physical form. It has been known for over a century that traveling faster than the speed of light is impossible. Moreover, it's virtually impossible to accelerate any large object to velocities exceeding 10% of light speed, as the required energy would be enormous.

Additionally, despite decades of monitoring the electromagnetic spectrum, the search for extraterrestrial signals has yielded no positive results.

Thus, the concept of an alien agenda seems to mainly captivate those who are eager to believe in it.

Can we trust special relativity? Absolutely. Everyday technologies, such as GPS systems, rely on it. While proponents of alternative views often refute established science, it's challenging to dispute something that's integral to devices we use daily, like computers and watches.
(This post was last modified: 2023-12-01, 09:10 PM by sbu. Edited 1 time in total.)
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I'd put aliens visiting utilizing technology born of deeper understanding of the universe over Turing machines becoming conscious by running the right program...

...but I do agree that it is difficult to see how any alien could come from another planet going by our current understanding of physics...will write more later...

edit: Worth a watch I think ->

'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


(This post was last modified: 2023-12-01, 10:25 PM by Sciborg_S_Patel. Edited 2 times in total.)
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(2023-12-01, 10:20 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: I'd put aliens visiting utilizing technology born of deeper understanding of the universe over Turing machines becoming conscious by running the right program...

Love this comment!

Similarly, I have my doubts about aliens arriving from across the galaxy and I tend to imagine visits utilising yet to be refined aspects of consciousness rather than physical technology. I think that mind-expanding substances such as ayahuasca probably offer some clues in this direction and have long maintained that what out ancestors described as faeries, elves, leprechauns and even angels were probably of the same (possibly inter-dimensional) origin as the little grey men we are anticipating these days.

I do find it difficult to explain physical "nuts and bolts" ufology though but then I'm not a keen follower of UFO phenomena.
I do not make any clear distinction between mind and God. God is what mind becomes when it has passed beyond the scale of our comprehension.
Freeman Dyson
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(2023-12-01, 09:05 PM)sbu Wrote: I started this thread in the skeptics section of the forum to express my thoughts on the ‘aliens’ subject.

There are no aliens on this planet, at least not in a physical form. It has been known for over a century that traveling faster than the speed of light is impossible. Moreover, it's virtually impossible to accelerate any large object to velocities exceeding 10% of light speed, as the required energy would be enormous.

Additionally, despite decades of monitoring the electromagnetic spectrum, the search for extraterrestrial signals has yielded no positive results.

Thus, the concept of an alien agenda seems to mainly captivate those who are eager to believe in it.

Can we trust special relativity? Absolutely. Everyday technologies, such as GPS systems, rely on it. While proponents of alternative views often refute established science, it's challenging to dispute something that's integral to devices we use daily, like computers and watches.

You still need to credibly explain the accumulation over the years of a number of excellent expert multiple witness cases of what very much appear to be nuts-and-bolts UFO vehicles. Such as the Nash-Fortenberry case I covered at https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-w...2#pid55402 . Any suggested alternate explanation?
(This post was last modified: 2023-12-02, 12:23 AM by nbtruthman. Edited 1 time in total.)
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(2023-12-01, 09:05 PM)sbu Wrote: I started this thread in the skeptics section of the forum to express my thoughts on the ‘aliens’ subject.

There are no aliens on this planet, at least not in a physical form. It has been known for over a century that traveling faster than the speed of light is impossible. Moreover, it's virtually impossible to accelerate any large object to velocities exceeding 10% of light speed, as the required energy would be enormous.

Additionally, despite decades of monitoring the electromagnetic spectrum, the search for extraterrestrial signals has yielded no positive results.

Thus, the concept of an alien agenda seems to mainly captivate those who are eager to believe in it.

Can we trust special relativity? Absolutely. Everyday technologies, such as GPS systems, rely on it. While proponents of alternative views often refute established science, it's challenging to dispute something that's integral to devices we use daily, like computers and watches.

Our experience of Spacetime and QM both seem to emerge from a single more primitive and simple mathematical structure. A shape similar to that mathematical structure fills our brains networks. To me, it seems likely that my shared experience emerges from that shape.

Arguably, the first mass sightings of UFO's, specifically flying discs, were seen at the end of June 1947, this occurred around the same time as the Americans began using high powered particle accelerators. My research suggests that the source of these shared experiences may have been the high energy particle paths from the largest particle accelerator at that time, interacting with our brains networks. Since then, they have developed larger accelerators with gentler bends, and buried and shielded them.

Scale seems to be a key problem, what exists outside of our scale...? There is plenty of evidence that people have experiences which are not their own, these appear to cross time and space. And now, with the suggestion that our experience of spacetime and QM seem to emerge from a more primitive mathematical structure, perhaps we've been exploring. I have very little doubt, that other (different) mathematical structures also have experience, some we barely interact with, and no doubt they too went exploring.

So yeah, I don't doubt that 'aliens' can also drop into your experience, whether they are a stray high energy cosmic particle, or something else.
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring 
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
(This post was last modified: 2023-12-02, 12:26 AM by Max_B. Edited 1 time in total.)
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(2023-12-02, 12:24 AM)Max_B Wrote: Our experience of Spacetime and QM both seem to emerge from a single more primitive and simple mathematical structure. A shape similar to that mathematical structure fills our brains networks. To me, it seems likely that my shared experience emerges from that shape.

Arguably, the first mass sightings of UFO's, specifically flying discs, were seen at the end of June 1947, this occurred around the same time as the Americans began using high powered particle accelerators. My research suggests that the source of these shared experiences may have been the high energy particle paths from the largest particle accelerator at that time, interacting with our brains networks. Since then, they have developed larger accelerators with gentler bends, and buried and shielded them.

Scale seems to be a key problem, what exists outside of our scale...? There is plenty of evidence that people have experiences which are not their own, these appear to cross time and space. And now, with the suggestion that our experience of spacetime and QM seem to emerge from a more primitive mathematical structure, perhaps we've been exploring. I have very little doubt, that other (different) mathematical structures also have experience, some we barely interact with, and no doubt they too went exploring.

So yeah, I don't doubt that 'aliens' can also drop into your experience, whether they are a stray high energy cosmic particle, or something else.

This theory doesn't account for several features of the UFO phenomenon, plus it would seem preposterous that high energy particle interactions with our brains would just happen by chance to produce apparently real hallucinations of this peculiar sort.

There have been physical interactions with UFOs via radar returns and reception of EMI and other electromagnetic wave signals . There are several cases of ground traces left from apparent UFO landings, and a number of good video and photographic images evidently made from actual reception of reflected or emitted light rays.

Then also, the first mass wave of UFO sightings was before 1947 and the Kenneth Arnold case, during the latter part of WWII. On many occasions apparent small metallic orb-like objects were observed many times by American bomber aircrew and fighter pilots, in the 1943-1945 time period. They came to be called the "foo fighters", and from their descriptions fairly closely resembled the current small metallic sphere and "tic-tac" types recently being observed by US Navy pilots. This was before the development of large particle accelerators, and even before the atomic bomb.
(This post was last modified: 2023-12-02, 01:02 AM by nbtruthman. Edited 2 times in total.)
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I very, very greatly doubt that beings from outer space have visited here - but (and I realize this drifting off topic), I can't sand the pessimism that leads so many to assume that the answer to the Fermi paradox is "intelligent life destroys itself," not "we've only had the tools to look for intelligent life for a few decades and it's a big universe, be patient."
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I was referring to “nuts and bolts” ufology in the original post, and everyone seems to have understood that. So, the premise is the existence of entirely new physical laws, never detected before, even at the LHC, that can still interact with ordinary matter. (And yet, even with such overwhelming technology at their disposal, the aliens are still naive enough to get caught by a secret American organization, of all places on the planet). The only evidence we have for this monumental leap of faith is the testimony of a few individuals seeking attention. I don’t buy it.
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Most absolute statements about what is or isn't technologically possible age poorly.

Be careful of any hubris you might harbor about what we know and don't know.  We've proven to be pretty awful prognosticators on the subject.
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(2023-12-02, 09:42 AM)sbu Wrote: I was referring to “nuts and bolts” ufology in the original post, and everyone seems to have understood that. So, the premise is the existence of entirely new physical laws, never detected before, even at the LHC, that can still interact with ordinary matter. (And yet, even with such overwhelming technology at their disposal, the aliens are still naive enough to get caught by a secret American organization, of all places on the planet). The only evidence we have for this monumental leap of faith is the testimony of a few individuals seeking attention. I don’t buy it.

But you still haven't answered my two questions, asking for alternate explanations for the following:

"...if this is all hogwash, why are they (elements within DOD intelligence, both houses of Congress and within defense contractors) going this far to discredit and block legislation specifically targeting purported black projects engaged in UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering? Why would it matter to them? Why would they bother to go to the trouble?"

and

There have been accumulated over the years a number of excellent expert multiple witness cases of what very much appear to be nuts-and-bolts UFO vehicles, some also with radar, radio, EMI, ELINT and other electromagnetic interactions, plus ground traces and good videos and photographs. How to explain this body of evidence?

Just a few individuals seeking attention? Come on. My usual philosophy is to realize that evidence always trumps theory. This also applies to parapsychology and paranormal phenomena.
(This post was last modified: 2023-12-02, 03:48 PM by nbtruthman. Edited 2 times in total.)
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