"The Cosmic Hoax: An Exposé" by Steven Greer

I think we can speculate about things like holograms and 'psychic things' endlessly.

To speculate endlessly is what people do here! 

There is no limit to human imagination. I prefer to focus on those classic cases that in my opinion cumulatively establish beyond reasonable doubt that at least some UFOs are structured technological vehicles, somebody else’s hardware. The incidents of what very much appear to be ETIs are the most interesting to me, in particular the ones with a lot of detail, multiple expert witnesses, and even with radar and other EM interactions.

The first example (apologies for the length of these descriptions, but recounting some of their details leads to their weight as accounts of real physical events in space-time that occurred to these witnesses):

There is the RB-47 multiple air and ground electromagnetic signals interaction case, summarized at https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/...47-ufo.htm. This has been considered one of the best UFO vehicle cases ever. A better and much more detailed account is at http://www.noufors.com/the_RB-47_ufo_encounter.html .

“Possessing the most sophisticated electronic intelligence (ELINT) gear available to the U.S. Air Force, the RB-47 could handle anything.

Unfortunately, in the morning hours of July 17, 1957, over the southern United States, an RB-47 came across something it was unprepared for.

In the first hint of what was to come, one of the three officers who operate the electronic countermeasures (ECM) equipment detected an odd signal. Moving up the radar screen, the blip passed some distance in front of the RB-47, then over Mississippi. Though puzzled, he sai­d nothing. However, a few minutes later, at 4:10 A.M., the sudden appearance of an intense blue light bearing down on the aircraft shook the pilot and copilot. Even more unnerving, the object changed course in the blink of an eye and disappeared at the two o’clock position. The aircraft radar picked up a strong signal in the same spot. The UFO maintained this position even as the RB-47 continued toward east Texas.

The pilot then observed a “huge” light, attached, he suspected, to an even bigger something that the darkness obscured. When the electronics gear noted the presence of another UFO in the same general location as the first, the pilot turned the plane and accelerated toward it. The UFO shot away. By now the crew had alerted the Duncanville, Texas, Air Force ground radar station, and it was soon tracking the one UFO that remained (the second had disappeared after a brief time). At 4:50 radar showed the UFO abruptly stopping as the RB-47 passed under it. Barely seconds later it was gone.

This incredible case — considered one of the most significant UFO reports ever — remained classified for years. When it became known years later, the Air Force declared that the RB-47 crew had tracked an airliner. Physicist Gordon David Thayer, who investigated the incident for the University of Colorado UFO Project, called this explanation “literally ridiculous.””

Another example:

The Nash-Fortenberry UFO sighting was an unidentified flying object sighting that occurred on July 14, 1952, when two experienced commercial pilots (William B. Nash and William H. Fortenberry) saw eight UFOs flying in a tight echelon formation over Chesapeake Bay in the state of Virginia. Though the encounter lasted only twelve to fifteen seconds, Nash and Fortenberry were able to offer a detailed moment-by-moment chronology of events, and a relatively accurate measurement of the objects’ motion and size when compared to well-known attractions. Both pilots were World War II U.S. Navy veterans, and had been trained in identification of enemy aircraft — Nash was a Naval Air Transport veteran who specialized in anti-submarine patrols, while Fortenberry worked with the Navy’s air experimental wing.

Nash stated that the sighting consisted of “six bright objects streaking towards us at tremendous speed…They had the fiery aspect of hot coals, but of a much greater glow…Their shape was clearly outlined and evidently circular!” He would go on to state that this color was the same on each craft, which themselves glowed around “twenty times” brighter than the city lights below them.

A little more of the extensive detailed sighting by two expert observers, from https://www.ufoinsight.com/ufos/sighting...nberry-ufo :

The closer the objects got to the airliner the clearer the two men could see they were in a purposeful “narrow echelon formation”. The leader, according to Nash, was the “lowest” in the formation, with “each following craft slightly higher”. Then, the leader appeared to attempt to slow suddenly. Nash would continue:

“We received this impression because the second and third wavered slightly and seemed almost to overrun the leader, so that for a brief moment during the remainder of their approach the positions of these three varied. It looked very much as if an element of “human” or “intelligence” error had been introduced in so far as the following two did not react soon enough when the leader began to slow down and so almost overran him!”

As the two men continued to observe the row of glowing circular objects, they suddenly and with lightning speed changed their direction. They would “flip” on their edges with the glowing surface facing the pilots’ right. As they did so, the bottoms of the craft were “not clearly visible”.

This would lead the pilots to believe that the bottoms of the craft were, in fact, unlighted. The same appeared true for the edge of the objects. Nash would describe their overall appearance as being “much like coins”.

The encounter was corroborated by several groups of independent ground witnesses. The case has been recorded in the United States Air Force Blue book project as “unknown”. Major Dewey Fournet, who was involved with the Project Blue Book project years later, indicated that the incident was “one of the most detailed and reliable cases” of the times.

A more extensive and detailed recounting of the incident is at https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/4...o-casebook . These apparent craft have some similarity to the objects sighted by Kenneth Arnold in 1947.

There is no limit to human imagination. I prefer to focus on those classic cases that in my opinion cumulatively establish beyond reasonable doubt that at least some UFOs are structured technological vehicles, somebody else’s hardware. The incidents of what very much appear to be ETIs are the most interesting to me, in particular the ones with a lot of detail, multiple expert witnesses, and even with radar and other EM interactions.

The first example (apologies for the length of these descriptions, but recounting some of their details leads to their weight as accounts of real physical events in space-time that occurred to these witnesses):

There is the RB-47 multiple air and ground electromagnetic signals interaction case, summarized at https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/...47-ufo.htm. This has been considered one of the best UFO vehicle cases ever. A better and much more detailed account is at http://www.noufors.com/the_RB-47_ufo_encounter.html .



Another example:

The Nash-Fortenberry UFO sighting was an unidentified flying object sighting that occurred on July 14, 1952, when two experienced commercial pilots (William B. Nash and William H. Fortenberry) saw eight UFOs flying in a tight echelon formation over Chesapeake Bay in the state of Virginia. Though the encounter lasted only twelve to fifteen seconds, Nash and Fortenberry were able to offer a detailed moment-by-moment chronology of events, and a relatively accurate measurement of the objects’ motion and size when compared to well-known attractions. Both pilots were World War II U.S. Navy veterans, and had been trained in identification of enemy aircraft — Nash was a Naval Air Transport veteran who specialized in anti-submarine patrols, while Fortenberry worked with the Navy’s air experimental wing.

Nash stated that the sighting consisted of “six bright objects streaking towards us at tremendous speed…They had the fiery aspect of hot coals, but of a much greater glow…Their shape was clearly outlined and evidently circular!” He would go on to state that this color was the same on each craft, which themselves glowed around “twenty times” brighter than the city lights below them.

A little more of the extensive detailed sighting by two expert observers, from https://www.ufoinsight.com/ufos/sighting...nberry-ufo :



A more extensive and detailed recounting of the incident is at https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/4...o-casebook . These apparent craft have some similarity to the objects sighted by Kenneth Arnold in 1947.

I agree that there is more than enough evidence to make claim of the reality of 'nuts and bolts' UFOs a view that can be held with high confidence. It is a proposition that covers most of the claimed evidence better than any other notion. And since I am no longer in the business of writing government reports [not about any of this] I do not feel constrained by government protocols in how I frame my POVs. 

We can keep going back over evidence we already accept if we like. I have folder full of videos downloaded from YouTube to add to the many books I have read. But I am looking for the next step in progressing an understanding of WTF is going on.  That's why I blend the 'experiencer' reports with the observer reports.

I have attached a piece I wrote a few years back when Skeptiko had a show with couple of guys who had put together a book on different ideas about UFOs/ET. I had a bit of chat with Alex Tsakiris - before I was persuaded to join the forum.
  UFO Text for Alex.docx (Size: 25.43 KB / Downloads: 2)

I agree that there is more than enough evidence to make claim of the reality of 'nuts and bolts' UFOs a view that can be held with high confidence. It is a proposition that covers most of the claimed evidence better than any other notion. And since I am no longer in the business of writing government reports [not about any of this] I do not feel constrained by government protocols in how I frame my POVs. 

We can keep going back over evidence we already accept if we like. I have folder full of videos downloaded from YouTube to add to the many books I have read. But I am looking for the next step in progressing an understanding of WTF is going on.  That's why I blend the 'experiencer' reports with the observer reports.

I have attached a piece I wrote a few years back when Skeptiko had a show with couple of guys who had put together a book on different ideas about UFOs/ET. I had a bit of chat with Alex Tsakiris - before I was persuaded to join the forum.

From your attached essay:

I can do the N&B [nuts & bolts] UFO plus the other because I don’t think they are necessarily connected. For me there is a horizontal [physical] and a vertical [metaphysical] set of dimensions, and the two interact in a fundamental way. I am quite happy to assign the N&B ‘spaceships’ to a mundane class of folk who engage entirely in spatial travel.
.........................................
A summary
    • N&B – ET moves in their UFOs in our spatial [Physical] dimension. They come here with various intents that range from self-interest to maybe a benign motive to intervene in our affairs.
    • Metaphysical/ET alliance in which ET participates in a ‘higher’ agenda.
    • The Metaphysical – the inter-dimensional intersection with Earth in all its forms [but only at the metaphysical level] without any sense of accommodating the physical.
    • The Metaphysical/Terrestrial Physical alliance – across all forms of sentiment presences on Earth [not just the human] some kind of purposeful collaboration

I tend to agree with your multidimensional interpretation of the overall multiexistential UFO phenomenon. My only caveat is that there is a lot of uncertainty over how many of the metaphysical type of UFO experiences may really be manifestations of our own human collective unconscious fuelled by pervasive current fears and current developments in science, science fiction and other current cultural influences, and only masquerading as truly alien entities.

From your attached essay:


I tend to agree with your multidimensional interpretation of the overall multiexistential UFO phenomenon. My only caveat is that there is a lot of uncertainty over how many of the metaphysical type of UFO experiences may really be manifestations of our own human collective unconscious fuelled by pervasive current fears and current developments in science, science fiction and other current cultural influences, and only masquerading as truly alien entities.

I am aware of that concern. It was Jung's position as I recall. This is why I use the term ‘ET’ to embrace a range of options – from both sides – physical and metaphysical. Metaphysical agents are also, strictly speaking ‘extra-terrestrial’.
 
It is entirely feasible that a metaphysical agent would present as an alien from elsewhere in our physical space – if the experiencer provided no other option. However, experiencers include people who have a religious belief system that would enable spirit to express in a form familiar to them – and probably to greater effect in some cases.
 
It may also be the case that metaphysical agents have chosen to represent to humanity as aliens as a strategy to meet 2 possible objectives:
1.     To avoid causing a representation through traditional religious modes because they are not fit for purpose – the legacy of dogma and cultural practices might impede an intended ‘refresh’ of religious/spiritual thought.
2.     There is an alliance between metaphysical agents and physical ETs as part of an approach to humanity intended to be uplifting. A consistency of form would be advisable so as to circumvent the risk of factional affection for a particular expression as ‘the one and only.’
 
I read Jung on this back in the 1970s and again a few years back. I remained unconvinced by his argument. He did not take the metaphysical as seriously as he might  - something he seems to have regretted toward the end of his life.
 
I read both of John Mack’s books – Abduction and Passport to the Cosmos ages ago. I really do need to revisit Passport to the Cosmos – that’s been nagging at me for some time. Pity it’s not in audio. But it is on Kindle.
 
I just had to download the audiobook by Ralph Blumenthal The Believer – on John Mack. 
 
I read Abduction back in 1996. I was living in Bathurst NSW and one Saturday morning I headed downtown to one of the few tolerable cafes in town in those days. As I walked past a bookshop I was drawn in by a powerful compulsion. I recall walking past a book display, grabbing a book, paying for it and it was only when I was seated in the café that I became aware of what I had bought. I was finished with the book by Sunday evening.
 
That sparked a series of pretty weird stuff that included me being drawn to a ‘psychic fair’, hearing a talk on abductions, reading a magazine story that triggered a potent recall of an ‘abduction’ experience because the article described precisely what I had experienced and booking a hypnotic regression session that went totally off the rails.
 
I was to drive from Bathurst to Sydney for the session and my otherwise completely reliable Mazda 626 would not start. It started only after I had no chance of making it on time. I rang to apologise and reschedule but the phone call just got weird,  and I was filled with a sudden and very potent feeling that if I persisted I would be harmed. 
 
I have not tried this again. I have had other experiences related to interest in ET that have been even weirder but not as threatening.
 
Certainly, some of those experiences may well have been instances of metaphysical agents using the ET/UFO them – because that was all I presented as a context at the time. 
 
I am pretty confident that the 1995 experience drew me into the abduction experience – but also warned me off exploring it. Back then I was one of my periodic self-quarantines from anything metaphysical – mostly into local and regional economic development and politics. So,  the Mack book broke a rule I had imposed on myself. 
 
I was not assailed by anxieties. I had moved away from Dubbo and had a pretty sweet situation. I had my usual existential discontent. I have a history of life changing events being precipitated by an external compulsion imposing on me – something I have no control over and am powerless to resist. I do not mean a kind of weakness, but an actual force. When I bought Mack’s book I had no control over my actions. I was heading for a good coffee in a town that had crap cafes – and it was really only the weekends I could get there. I had no desire to buy a book because I had a bunch I was reading. I had no intent to enter the bookshop. I wanted to get to the café in time to get a good table, and I was running a bit late. So late, in fact, I had to park some distance away.
 
None of this – from the time I bought Abduction – to the screwing with me getting to the hypnotherapy session fits Jung’s argument. I do appreciate that anybody who has not been ‘impelled by spirit’ will not necessarily get this. I do not mean ‘guided’, I mean impelled in a non-voluntary manner – you could say compelled or forced – except, from long experience, I did not resist.
 
I do not believe any of this is attributable to ET associated with UFOs. In fact, I have often wondered why I have an interest in the ET/UFO thing. I seem to be pointed in that direction, so I accept the challenge.
 
I should point out that I have experienced ‘paranormal’ stuff since age 4. It was only after 1995 that I started reading accounts of possible abductions that matched my childhood experiences. I went to bed wearing pyjamas and woke up either naked or with the pyjamas on inside out. I frequently freaked out when I woke up with my head at the foot of the bed and my feet on the pillows. My mother had been nursing for awhile, so she made the beds hospital fashion. I genuinely panicked when I woke up at the foot of a tightly made bed.
 
In fact my reaction to going to sleep so concerned my parents they took me off to see a doctor. I was so determined to avoid sleep a stole matches and a candle stub and lit a candle under the bed clothes. I got sprung. Of course, nobody believed what I said about why I was terrified. I can look back now and see a reason for it all. 
 
The metaphysical pervade us and blights a few to trigger some kind of awakening. There is no simple explanation for it. Strieber powerfully describes his experiences in The Super Natural, with Jeff Kripal. I have experienced nothing like he has, but I find his story deeply resonates with me – the uninvited intrusion into one’s life for a reason that is never spelled out simply.
 
I suspect that this is paralleled in a wider sense via the UFO phenomena. The normal is irrevocably disrupted because a new awareness is emerging, and we are all part of it – whether we like it or not.
 
I note with interest that Covid coincides with accelerated UFO activity, and we are in the most potent existential crisis. Add the emerging vulnerabilities of Democracy being exposed and disruptions to the global power array [political and economic] and we have a perfect storm in which our best conduct is required. When you add the metaphysical and physical dimensions of ET it is reasonable to consider we are under a test of some kind. Sum all the issues facing humanity and there are some questions we must ask of ourselves.
 

If metaphysical agents are ‘extra-terrestrial’ it follows that humans are ET by that definition. At least our consciousness would be.

If metaphysical agents are ‘extra-terrestrial’ it follows that humans are ET by that definition. At least our consciousness would be.

Yeah. Pretty much so.

One of the challenges that comes across from those metaphysical agents seeking to assist is that of developing a capacity for thinking in metaphysical terms while in the physical body. It's damn hard. So long as our point of reference for a sense of reality the material world, we tend to frame our thought accordingly - as you'd expect.

The challenge of opening our minds to what is beyond the physical is neatly captured in White's The Unobstructed Universe [1940]. You can find the book as a PDF on the net - http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301131.txt is one source. It's also on Kindle. I have attached a brief excerpt and a glossary.

i think the fact that we are really ET in essence can help us to appreciate maybe why more advanced ET has an interest in us - and because we are often so blockishly focus via our physical being - why physical ET is involved as well.
  Unobstructed Universe Excerpt.docx (Size: 14.54 KB / Downloads: 0)
  Unobstructed Universe Glossary.docx (Size: 13.58 KB / Downloads: 0)

[Laird]

It is entirely feasible that a metaphysical agent would present as an alien from elsewhere in our physical space – if the experiencer provided no other option. However, experiencers include people who have a religious belief system that would enable spirit to express in a form familiar to them – and probably to greater effect in some cases.

Do you think there is any way to "get behind the mask" in either case? If so, how might we go about that? Do you think we might try to correlate people's religious/spiritual/metaphysical beliefs with the forms in which metaphysical agents present to those people?

There is an alliance between metaphysical agents and physical ETs as part of an approach to humanity intended to be uplifting.

In that case: why the need for relative secrecy? Why not just let humans openly know: we are here, and we are here to uplift you?

I read Jung on this back in the 1970s and again a few years back. I remained unconvinced by his argument. He did not take the metaphysical as seriously as he might  - something he seems to have regretted toward the end of his life.

Agreed, although I have not read much Jung directly, so am mostly relying on secondhand reports.

Do you think there is any way to "get behind the mask" in either case? If so, how might we go about that? Do you think we might try to correlate people's religious/spiritual/metaphysical beliefs with the forms in which metaphysical agents present to those people?


In that case: why the need for relative secrecy? Why not just let humans openly know: we are here, and we are here to uplift you?


Agreed, although I have not read much Jung directly, so am mostly relying on secondhand reports.

 Hey Laird

Do you think there is any way to "get behind the mask" in either case? If so, how might we go about that? Do you think we might try to correlate people's religious/spiritual/metaphysical beliefs with the forms in which metaphysical agents present to those people?

I think getting 'behind the mask' is complex and difficult. There do not seem to be easy answers. There's probably a good reason for this - I don't think the 'answer' fits into any rational frame we currently have.

For me there is an absolute correlation between beliefs and how metaphysical agents present to us. The higher level ones do not have form that is meaningful to us, so we hunt for analogies [and our brains fill in gaps with whole pictures]. Ancient traditions have 'gods' as sometimes terrifying and dangerous not because they are inherently that way, but because direct exposure can be harmful. I can tell you from direct experience that encountering a high level agent is a perilous affair. It is necessary to have filters or a 'step down transformer' that takes the pressure down. This is usually via intermediaries - referred to as 'messengers' [from which we derive the word  'angel'].

Strieber's accounts confirm this perspective.

In that case: why the need for relative secrecy? Why not just let humans openly know: we are here, and we are here to uplift you?

Being 'uplifted' is a matter of choice. And then there is the problem of human reaction - one need look only at the way Trump is regarded as 'saviour' among the Christian right in the USA. The way I see it it is very much a case of 'those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.' That is to say that 'help' may actually be in plain sight, but unseen. There are those who have conscious engagement with metaphysical agents and the many more who may have unconscious connection. The need for conscious engagement is not always apparent.

For example Christianity arguably deviated from the essential message of Jesus when 'the faithful' developed a desire for conscious connection - which became the 'Church', with all its problematic attributes. A deeper, more mystical approach seems to provide fidelity with the core themes. So maybe being responsive to intuitions is considered a better way for most.

So, do metaphysical agents work through existing belief systems [including those which effectively exclude 'are revelations - the Abrahamic faiths], or do they create mayhem by exciting new targets for belief and craziness? I can imagine there is reason to deepen mystical expressions of some faiths so as to get beyond dogma and theology. But doing that with other faiths may trigger a reaction of fear and loathing by those who will find 'new revelations' to be harmful to their status, power and wealth. I can imagine US televangelists denouncing ET as the spawn of Satan and demanding urgent donations to help them defend the faithful.

Engagement with obvious agents or symbols leads to problems with focus on key messages. Eg a lot of 'abductees' report developing awareness of environmental concerns, which, once triggered seem to be sustainable. As I say. It is complex.

I think Jung was a great thinker who advanced our understanding of human psychology. But he was not infallible - as he himself acknowledged. I think he'd have a different take on the metaphysical now.

Ultimately I think the big challenge is that of connecting with rational and sceptical folk who have abandoned faith and acceptance of the metaphysical. Religions have run their course simply because the evolving human mentality demands a different set of propositions - ones based on 'reason'.

How do we engage with those who deny responsibility for being in the world, and who have the power to continue to do harmful things? Maybe that's what the present up tick in UFO sightings is about - going via US military with the tech to end BS claims about balloons and swamp gas. How better to grab the attention of a mind mired in materialism than demonstrate tech that knocks their socks off.

The recent US report has been largely ignored in the public domain, but that does not mean there are not a bunch of conversations going on off stage. To me the media is a good signaller of what can be talked about, but not any indication of interest - because that's not how to keep attention. Also I suspect the capacity for conversation is limited because the idea that ET is real will be novel to many.

[Laird]

For me there is an absolute correlation between beliefs and how metaphysical agents present to us.

Well, there's an empirically testable claim if ever there was one. Who's going to conduct the study? Has one already been conducted? Are there more than one? Is there a meta-analysis?

In any case, Mike, can I get your clarification: are there any metaphysical agents, whether divine or diabolical, including gods/God(dess), that you would not class as "ET" or differentiate from those beings which pilot UFOs/UAPs? If there are, then how would you make that differentiation? In other words, I'm wondering whether you place all conscious entities other than humans in the same (ET) basket? (Acknowledging that your recent response to Typoz suggests that that "other" might not even itself apply!)