Scientists discover what happens seconds before you die

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I’m pretty sure this Information has been discussed before . Some of the comments to the article raise some good points . Just looking to create dialogue ..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/...s-die.html
(2023-05-01, 10:39 PM)Bill37 Wrote: I’m pretty sure this Information has been discussed before . Some of the comments to the article raise some good points . Just looking to create dialogue ..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/...s-die.html

I don’t think there’s much to be said about this. They detect a spike in brain activity in two patients and not in two others. In the two patients with spikes there’s a correlation with  an increase in hearte rate. But as the the sympathetic nervous system increases the heart rate in response to stress or physical activity this is probably what they are monitoring.
(This post was last modified: 2023-05-02, 06:19 AM by sbu.)
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Adding to this is the fact that science still has no insight connecting observed physiological brain phenomenon with what the patient is actually experiencing in their consciousness.  So when they talk about an increase in gamma activity as "believed to be connected to consciousness" I come away unimpressed.  Nothing's being said.
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I emailed Bruce Greyson about this.

He said (in summary) that the media misrepresented the brainwave readings and that the patients hearts did not stop when the alleged surge occured. He also told me that he and other authors are writing a lengthy rebuttal to the study and that he'll be willing to send it to me to replicate here once I receive his e-mail.

I'll keep you posted.  Thumbs Up
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(2023-05-02, 08:30 PM)Sam Wrote: I emailed Bruce Greyson about this.

He said (in summary) that the media misrepresented the brainwave readings and that the patients hearts did not stop when the alleged surge occured. He also told me that he and other authors are writing a lengthy rebuttal to the study and that he'll be willing to send it to me to replicate here once I receive his e-mail.

I'll keep you posted.  Thumbs Up

That's good of Bruce Greyson to give such a useful reply.
Thank you for reaching out to him.
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Well it shows some gamma EEG changes during and after ventilation removal in 2 of the 4 patients, removal of ventilation I guess is equivalent to a period of asphyxiation ( if they did not breathe for themselves) - even if the heart was still beating. At least Borjigin found patient 1, with some EEG gamma changes as they were asphyxiating to death, which might be correlated with consciousness. But even if she's eventually proven correct that various EEG gamma changes are correlated with consciousness... she can't say why it happens... i.e. she can't say why comatose people without conscious activity would suddenly experience consciousness after the plug is pulled on their ventilator.

But I wouldn't knock what she's doing... because she's a serious researcher who has hard data with which she is suggesting that people really do spontaneously regain consciousness after they begin the dying process. That position is completely at odds with most 'sceptics' who claim the recalled 'experiences' when dying are confabulated before, or after the dying event.
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring 
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
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INVITED COMMENTARY, Critique of Recent Report of Electrical Activity in the Dying Human Brain

Pim van Lommel, MD

Bruce Greyson, MD

At https://iands.org/images/stories/pdf_dow...-Brain.pdf

From the IANDS announcement of this invited commentary:

"In the brief (4.5 double-spaced pages) Invited Commentary linked below, experts explain — in terms most readers should be able to understand — why the findings of this most recent study and others like it "do not and cannot explain" either confirmed aspects of NDEs or the source of NDEs."

From the conclusion:

Quote:"...regarding the well-documented phenomena of NDEs, understanding electrical
processes in the brain might elucidate the mechanisms whereby experiencers process their
memories and interpretations of their NDEs. However, electrical processes do not and cannot
explain what enables unconscious patients to see unexpected things in the material world
accurately from an out-of-body visual perspective (Holden, 2009; Rivas et al., 2023 in press); to
recognize and interact with deceased persons who, in the material world, were not yet known to
have died (Greyson, 2010a); or to experience greatly enhanced cognition and perception during
cardiac arrest or general anesthesia when neuroscientific models deem such complex
consciousness to be impossible (Greyson et al., 2009; Greyson, 2021b; Kelly et al., 2007)."
(This post was last modified: 2023-05-18, 05:49 PM by nbtruthman. Edited 2 times in total.)
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