NDEs and epileptic seizures

I guess I'll try to wait with a bit of hope for the final results of AWARE II, maybe they won't have any connection to seizures. I'm just really pessimistic that's all.

Pessimism, as well as optimism, should be based on data. And, I'm sorry, but it's evident that either you are a materialist disingenuously pretending to be a proponent (we've had a our share of those on this forum), or somebody completely unfamiliar with the data on the subject. I'm inclined to believe in former, given that, when a concrete cases or phenomena are cited, you avoid talking about then and display no interest in finding out what they are, concentrating obsessively, instead, on this ridiculous seizure matter. And that modus operandi reveals a particular agenda.

Pessimism, as well as optimism, should be based on data. And, I'm sorry, but it's evident that either you are a materialist disingenuously pretending to be a proponent (we've had a our share of those on this forum), or somebody completely unfamiliar with the data on the subject. I'm inclined to believe in former, given that, when a concrete cases or phenomena are cited, you avoid talking about then and display no interest in finding out what they are, concentrating obsessively, instead, on this ridiculous seizure matter. And that modus operandi reveals a particular agenda.

I really have no agenda, I have translated an interview with doc Parnia from italian to english in the general NDE thread and also posted about Mary Neal NDE showing a nice talk by her with info, I really wish them to be true.

I also sustained the "Pam Reynolds hearing test" made by Gerry Woorlee and found that his ideas about her earing (filtering out the sound) wasn't rational at all. I just got scared by this EEG findings.

I really have no agenda, I have translated an interview with doc Parnia from italian to english in the genersl NDE thread and I really wish them to be true.

Well then, if you read up on the cases and phenomena I mentioned before, you'll realize how preposterous the seizure argumennt is,

Weird.

Because you flip-flop a little too strangely.

Your credibility is basically zero for me, right now.

You sound like someone panicking, scrambling, to pick up the pieces, having been caught out.

Might as well drop the act.

Weird.

Because you flip-flop a little too strangely.

Your credibility is basically zero for me, right now.

You sound like someone panicking, scrambling, to pick up the pieces, having been caught out.

Might as well drop the act.

I absolutely agree, I've been on this forum from the beginning, before that, on Skeptiko... So, I've been around the block a few times, and have seen this disguise of "a pessimistic proponent" time and time again. The modus operandi is very telling and always the same: 1) ignore the data cited to you 2) keep repeating ad nauseam the "fact" that "makes you pessimistic".... "CRAP, LOOKS LIKE MATERIALISM IS GONNA WIN!".... Seen it so many times, it became utterly boring. Why do they have to be so disingenuous. I think it denotes an ideological stance, I always felt that the so-called "skeptics" persue an ideological agenda.

I'm not acting, really. I just get scared rather easily and NDEs are my only source of paranormal claims which really find reliable, so seeing them damaged in credibility would be a great shock for me.

I'm not acting, really. I just get scared rather easily and NDEs are my only source of paranormal claims which really find reliable, so seeing them damaged in credibility would be a great shock for me.

Again you ignore, willfully at that, the phenomena AS STRONG OR STRONGER that NDE's as to survival of consciousness: 1) SDE's 2) DBV's 3) pre-mortem lucidity, etc., concentrating instead on that ridiculous seizure thing. Man, either read up and get informed, or, if you ARE aware of those phenomena but don't want to talk about them, because you pursue an ideological agenda, just drop the act. I, personally, do think you are pursuing an agenda: you stated that all the phenomena I cited "could be explained in terms of brain activity", which is a misleading statement, based on NOTHING.

If they happen at the same time where brain activity is present

Raf, your reasoning is sadly way off the mark, my friend.  NDE's do occur in people with normal brain activity. They always did. Falling climbers and parachutists (who's canopies failed to open) report them. People report them just before fatal collisions, with the OBE portion of the NDE particularly symptomatic (apparently) They even (apparently) occur in people sitting by the fire (probably watching EastEnders, I would have thought).

When the breadth of the NDE phenomenon came to be realised in the nineteen eighties, researchers began to try to narrow down the possibilities of what was actually causing them. Apart from NDE's that seemed to occur when some people had a cardiac arrest, there were still numerous potential brain based explanations which prevented any possible "acceptance" that there was a genuine separation of mind and brain (what the patients who had NDE's were actually reporting). So they narrowed down their studies to NDE's that seemed to occur when the brain was not working (cardiac arrest)

The first large scale study of this type was conducted by Dutch cardiologist, Pim Van Lommel in the Netherlands.
That study was the gold standard (Arch sceptic Gerald Woerlee admitted) and Van Lommel concluded that NDE's occurred in his patients who had non functioning brains or as he puts it, consciousness continued, which is impossible according to current medical science.

When the brain stops functioning, it doesn't matter if you have a seizure. It doesn't matter if you inject a patient with LSD or DMT(compounds), it cannot be the cause of the NDE because without a functioning brain, consciousness/thought processes are not possible.

I understand "eagerness" to want answers. We all want answers. Your eagerness seems to verge on wanting some kind of definitive absolute proof of mind beyond brain or life after death...right now ! 

You'll never get that, Raf, forget it, or it will simply drive you insane. Even if Parnia gets his hits (and he will eventually) sceptics will immediately see how they can go about spoiling it...any way any how.

I've just finished watching Parnia's talk.  I thought it was excellent and he deals nicely with all the speculation about potential consciousness in pig's brains and brain dead patients. Basically, there isn't any.

As to seizures being the cause of NDE's, there's nothing in that at all. Furthermore, how would a seizure enable you to see a laptop up in the air from your position on the bed ?