Administrator note: This discussion has been moved to this subforum.
Raf, I'll remind you that arguing that an entire category of paranormal phenomena is illusory or materialistic in nature, rather than a specific individual case, has to be done in this sub-forum, and not in the Extended Consciousness Phenomena forum. As per the forum guidelines. (Ninshub)
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https://med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/g...unds/18-19
brief update by Parnia on AWARE II, at minute 49. It seems, if I get it right, that 10% people get seizures in their EEG during CA, this basicaly explains why NDEs happen. They are brain products, if I got it right.
(2019-06-09, 01:29 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]https://med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/g...unds/18-19
brief update by Parnia on AWARE II, at minute 49. It seems, if I get it right, that 10% people get seizures in their EEG during CA, this basicaly explains why NDEs happen. They are brain products, if I got it right.
I wouldn't think you got that right.
If this is really an update from Parnia, the idea of him suddenly declaring that NDEs are a product of the brain would represent a major change of direction - headline news! Is that what he's saying, that all his previous statements are now null and void?
(2019-06-09, 01:29 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]https://med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/g...unds/18-19
brief update by Parnia on AWARE II, at minute 49. It seems, if I get it right, that 10% people get seizures in their EEG during CA, this basicaly explains why NDEs happen. They are brain products, if I got it right.
He says (52:30) "if you see yourself from above, surrounded by a group of people debating whether you're dead or alive, you most likely are dead". Doesn't seem to me at all that he's implying that NDE's are brain product.
About 10% get an NDE, 10% seizures on the EEG. Crap I think materialism is gonna win.
(2019-06-09, 02:00 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]About 10% get an NDE, 10% seizures on the EEG. Crap I think materialism is gonna win.
Again, later in the presentation he says that if you are observing yourself from above, that means you are dead. If that's materialism, I'm Napoleon. Besides, that seizure stuff doesn't explain at all the Shared Death Experiences, OBE's, pre-mortem lucidity, deathbed visiones, etc.
(2019-06-09, 02:10 PM)Enrique Vargas Wrote: [ -> ]Again, later in the presentation he says that if you are observing yourself from above, that means you are dead If that's materialism, I'm Napoleon. Besides, that seizure stuff doesn't explain at all the Shared Death Experiences, OBE's, pre-mortem lucidity, deathbed visiones, etc.
If the seizures happen in NDE cases then NDEs get debunked as just brain product. We have to see if seizures and NDEs always happen together but I fear this is the case. Maybe one can try contact parnia?
(2019-06-09, 02:00 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]About 10% get an NDE, 10% seizures on the EEG. Crap I think materialism is gonna win.
To be clear, he's not connecting the seizures with NDEs, is he? That's a connection you're making.
(2019-06-09, 02:12 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]If the seizures happen in NDE cases then NDEs get debunked as just brain product. We have to see if seizures and NDEs always happen together but I fear this is the case. Maybe one can try contact parnia?
1) not at all, NDE's won' get debunked as brain product; seizures won't explain third-party-verified NDE's which are numerous. 2) again, NDE's are only part of the phenomenon, SDE's, DBV's, OBE's, among others, have nothing to do with seizures. 3) you are avoiding for the second time to address the pronouncement about seeing yourself from above when you are dead, which is completely "un-materialistic".
So, If I were you, I wouldn't get so enthusiastic about this seizure thing.
(2019-06-09, 02:17 PM)Enrique Vargas Wrote: [ -> ]1) not at all, NDE's won' get debunked as brain product; seizures won't explain third-party-verified NDE's which are numerous. 2) again, NDE's are only part of the phenomenon, SDE's, DBV's, OBE's, among others, have nothing to do with seizures. 3) you are avoiding for the second time to address the pronouncement about seeing yourself from above when you are dead, which is completely "un-materialistic".
So, If I were you, I wouldn't get so enthusiastic about this seizure thing.
The statement about being dead was just a joke he was making to close the lecture. It meant nothing. And yes if NDEs happen in people with brain activity and they aren't present in people who instead do not have it NDEs get dubunked, it means the brain is causing them.
Of course we donìt know it yet, he told nothing about the two being correlated but using Occam's Razor it's the most probable thing going on during NDEs.
(2019-06-09, 02:24 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]The statement about being dead was just a joke he was making to close the lecture. It meant nothing. And yes if NDEs happen in people with brain activity and they aren't present in people who instead do not have it NDEs get dubunked, it means the brain is causing them.
Of course we donìt know it yet, he told nothing about the two being correlated but using Occam's Razor it's the most probable thing going on during NDEs.
1) Seriously? You're thought reader? "It meant nothing"? Wow, you display tremendous amount of certainty there. I'd call it "wishful thinking"
2) Really, third party-verified NDE's are caused by brain?? Again, a severe case of wishful thinking I'd say.
3) I repeat for the third time: NDE's are only part of the phenomenon, SDE's, OBE's, DBV's, PML (all that stuff materialists hate to talk about) could not be debunked by this seizure nonsense.
4) Yea, good luck with your Occam's Razor explaining Pam Reynold's case or the dentures case, or the sneaker case. And Hundreds of others. If not thousands.