NDEs and epileptic seizures

Administrator note: This discussion has been moved to this subforum.

Raf, I'll remind you that arguing that an entire category of paranormal phenomena is illusory or materialistic in nature, rather than a specific individual case, has to be done in this sub-forum, and not in the Extended Consciousness Phenomena forum. As per the forum guidelines. (Ninshub)

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https://med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/g...unds/18-19

brief update by Parnia on AWARE II, at minute 49. It seems, if I get it right, that 10% people get seizures in their EEG during CA, this basicaly explains why NDEs happen. They are brain products, if I got it right.

https://med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/g...unds/18-19

brief update by Parnia on AWARE II, at minute 49. It seems, if I get it right, that 10% people get seizures in their EEG during CA, this basicaly explains why NDEs happen. They are brain products, if I got it right.

I wouldn't think you got that right.

If this is really an update from Parnia, the idea of him suddenly declaring that NDEs are a product of the brain would represent a major change of direction - headline news! Is that what he's saying, that all his previous statements are now null and void?

https://med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/g...unds/18-19

brief update by Parnia on AWARE II, at minute 49. It seems, if I get it right, that 10% people get seizures in their EEG during CA, this basicaly explains why NDEs happen. They are brain products, if I got it right.

I also think NDE's/OBE's are correlated with processes in the experients brain (but perhaps not only their brain).

However you'll have to wait for Parnia's paper, to see whether the seizures they measured using EEG are/are not exclusively correlated with survivors who reported NDEs/NDE OBE's.

I haven't done any reading on on the subject yet, but a brief search suggests a relationship between cardiac arrest and seizures seems well known, particularly in epilepsy.

https://med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/g...unds/18-19

brief update by Parnia on AWARE II, at minute 49. It seems, if I get it right, that 10% people get seizures in their EEG during CA, this basicaly explains why NDEs happen. They are brain products, if I got it right.

He says (52:30) "if you see yourself from above, surrounded by a group of people debating whether you're dead or alive, you most likely are dead". Doesn't seem to me at all that he's implying that NDE's are brain product.

About 10% get an NDE, 10% seizures on the EEG. Crap I think materialism is gonna win.

About 10% get an NDE, 10% seizures on the EEG. Crap I think materialism is gonna win.

Again, later in the presentation he says that if you are observing yourself from above, that means you are dead. If that's materialism, I'm Napoleon. Besides, that seizure stuff doesn't explain at all the Shared Death Experiences, OBE's, pre-mortem lucidity, deathbed visiones, etc.

Again, later in the presentation he says that if you are observing yourself from above, that means you are dead If that's materialism, I'm Napoleon. Besides, that seizure stuff doesn't explain at all the Shared Death Experiences, OBE's, pre-mortem lucidity, deathbed visiones, etc.

If the seizures happen in NDE cases then NDEs get debunked as just brain product. We have to see if seizures and NDEs always happen together but I fear this is the case. Maybe one can try contact parnia?

About 10% get an NDE, 10% seizures on the EEG. Crap I think materialism is gonna win.

To be clear, he's not connecting the seizures with NDEs, is he? That's a connection you're making.

He says (52:30) "if you see yourself from above, surrounded by a group of people debating whether you're dead or alive, you most likely are dead". Doesn't seem to me at all that he's implying that NDE's are brain product.

It's crucial that one makes the distinction between the organism being lifeless (behaviorally unconscious),  and the cells from which the organism is composed being lifeless... these two things are not the same, and is the reason that we can resuscitate organisms that have already begun the dying process.

AWARE stands for Awareness during Resuscitation, because that's a key area they are studying... why do some people report experiences apparently from around the period of their resuscitation? In Parnia's last paper... where they obtained a veridical auditory hit... they suggested that when a patient appears to be unconscious using current medical diagnostics, this might not be accurate, and that the patient may only be *behaviorally* unconscious.

If the seizures happen in NDE cases then NDEs get debunked as just brain product. We have to see if seizures and NDEs always happen together but I fear this is the case. Maybe one can try contact parnia?

1) not at all, NDE's won' get debunked as brain product; seizures won't explain third-party-verified NDE's which are numerous. 2) again, NDE's are only part of the phenomenon, SDE's, DBV's, OBE's, among others, have nothing to do with seizures. 3) you are avoiding for the second time to address the pronouncement about seeing yourself from above when you are dead, which is completely "un-materialistic".  
So, If I were you, I wouldn't get so enthusiastic about this seizure thing.