NDE's

[Edited by an admin to a reasonably-sized extract - for the full report, click on the link]

Dr. Monica Williams-Murphy is an Emergency Medicine Physician, practicing in Huntsville hospital, one of the largest emergency departments in the USA. This report is from her blog and was featured in "The Self does not die" by Rivas, Smit and Dirven.

“I died and you brought me back to life”: How one patient’s near death experience changed my life

Throughout the course of my career I have probably been with hundreds of people as they transitioned into AND out of death. Although I am familiar with what this journey looks like, I have not yet been privy to the journey myself. Rarely though, I have had the pleasure of listening to someone who has journeyed back from death and arrived with a story to tell. Regardless of your position on the validity of near death experiences, take this one for what it’s worth to you.

Years ago when I was ripe and round with my 3rd child, I was trudging through a late night shift in the ER when a “code” came in by EMS. The patient was a young man in maybe his late 30s, and when the paramedics came around the corner with him they were all sweating from the efforts of professional chest compressions and airway support. I remember that they had been unable to place a breathing tube during transport due to the amount of vomit in the man’s airway. I recall, that due to my gestational girth, that I had to squat like a Sumo Wrestler to be able to see into his throat myself, but was able to secure a stable airway as we continued CPR.

I was giving the orders, but our entire team was trying to figure out why he had died, and what we could do to resuscitate him. One of the paramedics stated that he thought that drugs were involved and that this was a potential overdose situation.

So I tried a few more medications on him and unexpectedly, we got a pulse!

[Edited by an admin to a reasonably-sized excerpt. For the full transcript, click on the link and then click "Show Transcript"]

I found this report interesting (I first posted it on Skeptiko a while back) in regard to the effect it has (clearly) had on the person. They've actually got his name wrong (in the report) but I've left it like that. I contacted him and he very kindly replied to a few questions I had about his experience.

There was no expectation on his behalf beforehand. He didn't recognise (or hasn't been able to recognise) any of the faces in the room waiting for him but he thought there was some kind of leader figure who was a bit taller than the rest. He said it was "way too vivid" to be a dream or a hallucination and he couldn't stop talking about it for months afterwards. He was "shocked" a total of thirteen times.

From the transcript of the WCVB show, Did They See Afterlife?

(The transcript was in capitals)

"I WAS FLOATING TOWARDS THIS ROOM, AND IT WAS LIKE A GLASS RECTANGULAR ROOM. AND THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THAT ROOM ALL DRESSED IN FORMAL ATTIRE,  LIKE FORMAL WHITES. AND THEY WERE ALL VERY, VERY WELCOMING, IT WAS A GOOD PLACE TO GO TO. I COULD TELL THAT THEY WANTED ME TO COME TOWARDS THEM."

FIVE YEARS AGO PAUL SUFFERED A MAJOR HEART ATTACK, WHICH HE SURVIVED, MOSTLY BECAUSE HIS WIFE KATIE GOT HIM TO NORWOOD HOSPITAL IN TIME.

WHILE DOCTORS THERE WERE TRYING TO REVIVE HIM, HE HAD WHAT HE DESCRIBES AS A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. SOMETHING HE REMEMBERS TODAY, AS IF IT HAPPENED YESTERDAY.

"IT WAS MORE JUST, THIS IS A GREAT PLACE FOR YOU TO COME, WE WANT YOU TO COME HERE, AND THAT I THINK WAS THE VIVID THING. IT WAS ALMOST LIKE THIS IS AKIN TO SEEING GHOSTS. BUT THEY'RE REAL. SO THE SENSE WAS THAT THIS WASN'T MAKE BELIEVE OR A DREAM OR ANYTHING, THE SENSE I HAD WAS THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY REAL. AND THAT'S WHAT REALLY STICKS IN YOUR MIND."

[Edited by an admin to a reasonably-sized extract. For the full report, click the link]

This is another veridical OBE during a cardiac arrest which occurred two months ago (October 2017). Not a lot of detail, at least in what the reporter has seen fit to publish but it's possible there could be more. As many others have, (or claimed to have) it appears she witnessed her resuscitation because she provided details about it that she couldn't have known.  In the video she mentions seeing her dead mother but the interviewer must have left it out of the written report.

From Cynthia’s near-death experience: Q&A by Chloe Kiple

Cynthia Lawson of Dearborn, Mich. clinically died of a heart attack – vitals stopped, and doctors thought she was a "gonner" – until she came back to life, with a story to tell. In the cold moments when she flat-lined, Cynthia says she left her body and entered a dark tunnel, where she met angels, who shared a message with her. She also encountered an all-consuming bright light while she was dying.

Did this really happen? Her story is known as a near-death experience and has been widely reported throughout the country regardless of religious background, ethnicity, age or gender. Many near-death experiences share commonalities.

While she was dead, Cynthia says she watched her body from above. She later recalled exactly what happened, play by play, in the hospital room where she died. In her own words, Cynthia explains her experience.

As an interesting aside, the neurologist commenting in the video (1.40) states that in his experience the brain waves flatten BEFORE the heart stops (sceptics ?) He goes on to express surprise that this would occur at all with a brain in that state. (I don't think he is familiar with NDE's) He states that we "need" (actually says >"let's" figure out how) to figure out how this happened,  surmising that there must be a neurological explanation.

[Edited by an admin to add references to the material's source]

The veridical OBE is the interesting point here, the unusual shirt and braces that the doctor was wearing when he was defibrillating the patient. It seems unlikely that he could have seen these as he was clinically "dead" at the time and the reaction of the doctor to hearing the patient describing them would indicate this to be the case. The doctor was obviously called in straight from some kind of function.

From chapter 31, The story of David Bremner, UK, of The final frontier by Dr Richard Kent with Val Fotherby (note that the authors state explicitly: "This book has purposely been made available entirely free, and may be freely copied and distributed"):

One the requirements of offshore industries,
whether working or visiting oil platforms, was to
undergo a very strict medical at least every three
years. I had undertaken one of these in March of
1979 and, whilst a moderate smoker and minimal
spirit drinker, I was pronounced as fit as a fiddle.

That year however, the workload became intense. By September I had not had a day off. I was
constantly travelling all over the country by plane, train and car, and also flying by helicopters to
offshore rigs. After a great deal of persuasion from my wife and secretary, I agreed to take a few days
off, well at least the weekend. I arranged to play golf on the Sunday morning with some friends. I did
enjoy a lazy Saturday morning but at lunch time there was a phone call from the Offshore Construction
Manager about a potential labour dispute. Because of the direct radiophone system we had with the
rigs, it was easier for me to go into the office to link up and monitor the situation, and issue advice and
instructions as and when required.

I did try to unwind that night. The following morning I was up about 05.45 a.m. to get ready to play an
early round of golf. Being a good husband I decided to make Jean a cup of tea.  As I poured out the hot
water I had a severe pain in my chest and numbness in my left arm. It eased a moment as I walked
through to the bedroom but then returned with a vengeance making breathing and moving difficult.
I lay down on top of the bed and felt myself sinking into it.

Sounds starting to recede as if I was going deaf and I was only partly conscious.
My doctor and friend arrived. He gave me an injection to make
me more comfortable, and then arranged for my transfer to hospital. I was aware of very little of the
whole journey, or arriving at the hospital. What I experienced was something very different.

It must have been when my heart developed an abnormal rhythm that I found myself in a very bright,
white, and lighted place. There were no feelings of pain, discomfort or distress. In fact, it felt as if it
was where I wanted to be. I was experiencing a lovely feeling of peace when I became aware of
someone saying "Come this way David" and I was looking forward to going.

In many ways it was like a television set where the scene would change as the channel changed.
I found myself looking down from the top corner of a room, floating just under the ceiling.
Beneath me was a group of people gathered around a hospital trolley,
talking together very excitedly, but they seemed to be far away.

Some were dressed in green, others in outdoor clothes, and one man in a dress shirt with fancy
patterned braces on. On the wall, quite high up, I was conscious of an unusual clock. It was almost
opposite me and I thought it rather odd. The man in the fancy braces had something in both hands with
wires attached, and said something to the others, whilst placing these things on the person on the
trolley.

Immediately I felt intense pain return, and everything went black. Then as light returned I looked down
and suddenly realised that it was my body on the trolley. I was very angry at what was happening. I
wanted to stay where I was, because it was peaceful and pain free, and I was waiting for someone to
come and get me. But once more the man in the fancy braces bent over the trolley, and again I felt
intense pain. After that I felt nothing until I came round on the Tuesday.

When I came round there were Jean and Mike, the man whom I had been with on the Saturday sorting
out labour problems. He had actually done something almost unheard of in the oil industry, in that he
arranged to come onshore before his replacement arrived. This was because he felt he had to be at
the hospital with me.

I started to tell them about the strange experience that I had experienced, but
could see by their faces that it was being accepted only with a large pinch of salt. Jean casually
remarked, ‘That’s God giving you another chance. You’ll definitely have to change and slow down in
future.’ Mike, being his usual cynical self, ignored what I was saying and supported what Jean had said
about slowing down.

At that point they had to leave because the consultant had arrived. I was asking for something to eat
and drink, as well as a wash and shave, because I knew I must look awful. Whilst he was checking me
over I quite calmly said to him that he had quite a taste in braces. He stopped and asked, ‘What do
you mean?’ I explained about what had taken place and he stood upright, somewhat astonished. He
wanted to know if someone else had been speaking to me since I had come round, but the nurse
assured him that he was the first member of staff to speak to me since I had regained consciousness.

The consultant explained that it he had been in the hospital on the previous Sunday when I was
brought in, and that I had experienced a cardiac arrest on the trolley. What I had called jump leads
was actually a defibrillator he had used to treat my cardiac arrest. And yes, he did have on a dress
shirt and fancy braces.

But how did I know that, as I was seriously ill with a cardiac arrest at the time.
The room I was in was not the one he was used to and when I mentioned the clock, he had not
noticed it. He did say that he had been told of a few cases of similar experiences in the past, but he
was obviously puzzled by my comments.

Later that evening he returned to say that he had been down
to the room concerned, and there was a clock just as, and where, I had described it.

This report is from a man who called into C2C (Coast to Coast). I've lost the link, unfortunately but as soon as I find it, I'll stick it up.  Once again (as I've mentioned before) I'm not recommending "death" by posting these reports, it's the significance to science and what it may mean for us all.

I'm pretty satisfied it's a sincere account but what struck me as noteworthy was the similarity to many other reports which he may not have been familiar with.

"I have a heart condition, my heart actually shuts down on me and this has happened numerous times in my life. I lose blood flow to my brain, my blood pressure drops, my heart almost completely shuts down and just about every time this has happened, I've had different NDE's.

I've seen different things. They were all similar, they had similar things that went on with them but they were all different. The last one I had was the most profound one. I was pretty much on the floor I was unconscious, there were EMT's there. They told me to stand up, well I was almost gone. I don't even remember this, my wife told me I hit the floor, I was on the floor, my eyes were open, I was just staring and I was lifeless.

During that time I wasn't even there, I was somewhere else, I can't explain how I got there, all I know, I was in an area of light. There were no walls, it was just a vast area and I saw what I would call "light beings" off in the distance. Several light beings together in a group and as soon as I thought to myself, "Who are they ?" they all turned around  and noticed me like they weren't expecting me.

Or they...it was just like a shock and then they all came to me. They were just like made of light, you couldn't see details  they were just like a light figure of a human being but when I got closer you could see they were people. And they were radiating light. They were made of light. But they had robes on. White robes. One was a woman and she seemed to be the one who was talking to me. She came forward and talked to me.

She told me I was going to be alright. I was going through some really tough stuff now and they had to take care of me but I was going to be alright. And then there was so much...I got a lot of information when I was over there or wherever I was that I can't really recall now or I can't comprehend it...I recall some things and other things I just don't know...I just can't grasp.

HOST : How did it/does it feel  when you are back into your body, is it like a jolt ? Are you conscious of the fact that you're re-entering your body ? What's that like ?

It is a jolt, it's like...and it always happens on my left side, don't know why but it seems like I just get sucked in like a vacuum cleaner on my left side and I wake up and I'm really mad and disappointed because I don't want to come back.

It's so incredible. In all three experiences, there's this overwhelming feeling of love and joy....it just floods you and you know when I was in that light, it's like a fish in water... if I can use that (analogy) to describe it. The light is what you live off because you are light and you're in the light and all these beings, you're part of the light but you're still yourself.

And you know, I wish I'd looked at myself because I could have seen what I looked like but unfortunately I never do. This experience is way more real than this world right now. When you come back from that and get sucked into your body you automatically realise. First of all I was in a lot of pain and distress and you realise this is not good but then you realise you have to use eyes to see and ears to hear, it... it's like you're stuck in your body and it's very disappointing. I still get disappointed when I think about it because I want to get back there.

HOST : Has it made your life on this physical plain more difficult ?

No. not really. It actually made it easier because I know. You know I have a really bad heart. I've had five heart attacks. I've had quadruple by-pass surgeries. I've had to have those re-stented because I have heart disease so bad and you know I've been through a lot physically but I know no matter what, when it's over, when it's all said and done, I've got somewhere better to go and I know it's real. I tell other people about it and they're like kind of sceptical but that's okay, one day they might have the experience too......

[Edited by an admin to a reasonably-sized extract. For the full report, click on the link below and search in the PDF for "The Case of Peggy Raso" (on page 16 of the PDF, corresponding to page 32 of the Journal, as printed bottom-of-page)]

From Do Any Near-Death Experiences Provide Evidence for the Survival of Human Personality after Death? Relevant Features and Illustrative Case Reports [PDF] by Cook, Greyson and Stevenson in the Journal of Scientific Exploration Vol. 12, No. 3, pp. 307-406, 1998.

Peggy Adams Raso had this experience in 1960, 15 years before Moody's "Life after life."  

The room spun, went black, and I slid to the floor. I felt great pain in my chest. The
small room filled with hospital personnel. I saw myself on the floor. My gown had
landed around my waist and one nurse was pulling it down. An orderly came in and lifted
my body to the bed. Another brought a tank of oxygen into the room. I heard the
nurses saying call the doctor, call her husband, call the priest, etc.
One nurse was on the phone beside the bed and I heard her say:  "Yes, doctor, we have her back on the bed and
oxygen is being administered."

I, the real me, was not on the bed and I began to think
about this. I knew I didn't feel the bed beneath me. I looked down at the bed from my
vantage point near the ceiling.  I saw a girl there who looked to be in a
great deal of pain. Her eyebrows were drawn together, her lips were blue, she appeared
to have a blue mustache, there was an oxygen tube in her nose, her hair was wet looking
and strung out on the pillow.

I felt sorry for her. Doctors and nurses were coming and
going from the room. I saw one doctor hit her hard in the chest. I really felt confused at
what I was seeing and hearing. The nurses’ station was about fifty feet from my room.
I saw a doctor come to the station that I recognized. He was a family friend and I had
been raised next door to him. The nurse told him Peggy Adams [Mrs. Raso’ s maiden
name] had just died. He replied he would call Margaret (my mother). My hearing was
extremely acute. I heard and saw another patient on the floor complaining about the activity
and noise coming from my room.

Peggy died a second and final time two years ago. She was a member of the St Louis chapter of IANDS and was quoted by the St Louis Post, in 1995:

"Raso said she knows that what happened to her was real, and she has heard many stories of similar experiences from others in the St. Louis chapter, which meets once a month in her home. "Our group is growing all the time," she said, "and many who come to our meetings are medical personnel, hospice nurses and ministers."

See also her obituary: http://obituaries.register-herald.com/ob...-758210691

[Unfortunately, because we have been unable to obtain permission from the copyright-holder to publish the full text that tim originally included, we have had to truncate it. The full text tim originally included appears to be available in chapter 17 of "Miracles, Angels & Afterlife: Signposts to Heaven" by Peter Shockey and Stowe Dailey Shockey. After the first page of that chapter, though, Google Books omits pages (presumably, unless you buy the book). --Laird]

Viola Horton's experience will be familiar to many on here as it frequently pops up on you tube when looking for NDE's.  This is from an interview by Peter Shockey, the producer of "Life after Life," the documentary film and he reproduced it in a short book which I think was called "Reflections on Heaven."

The veridical nature of the NDE is what interests me but I've left it all in.

Who's dead ?

In the following chapter you will hear the full experience of Viola
Horton, one of those whom we interviewed at length.

I met Viola Horton on a beautiful spring day in 1991, twenty years after her amazing
near-death experience. She cheerfully agreed to fly up to Nashville from Augusta, Georgia,
where she and her husband Jud lived. She would be among several people whom Raymond
Moody had suggested we interview for the film.

Viola impressed me as a really sweet soul—a kind of country, grandmother. In fact, I
wished she had been my own grandmother! The wisdom she had gained from her years here on
earth plus the knowledge she acquired from her close encounter with death would have been
nice to be around while growing up. She had a good sense of humor, too, which put my film
crew and me at ease as we anxiously prepared for the shoot that day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihaK0ubzcKg

44 year old electronics engineer, David Ayre from Bristol was interviewed by Ian Wilson in the 1980's for his book, The After Death Experience. David's wife left him in 1978 and in the weeks that followed, pending divorce, he resolved (in Wilson's words) that his only solution lay in committing suicide.

From "The After Death Experience" : 

Being by nature a methodical and caring individual, he planned his death to be as painless and unobtrusive as possible.
The method he therefore chose was to swallow a large quantity of painkillers and sleeping tablets, drink two full bottles of whiskey and turn a large gas cylinder on in what he wryly describes as the smallest room in the house (the toilet). He had previously switched off all appliances that might cause an explosion, and so far as he was able, carefully sealed the room he was in in order for the gas to have maximum effect.

Nothing prepared him for the experience that followed when after what became completely involuntary gulping in of more and more gas, so that he felt he ought to explode, "Something seemed to snap inside "...like an overstretched elastic band.  David became aware of a tremendous feeling of peace and warmth, then a sense of being dead. He specifically recalls telling himself, "This must be it; yes this is it. Then he seemed to come out of his crumpled body, like the "thought bubble" of a cartoon character, finding the detached "consciousness" part of him seemingly trapped up in the corner of the tiny room, clearly looking down on myself...completely detached from it and completely at peace.

After experiencing some form of preliminary life review, David recollects the clear thought; "Oh God, what happens next? "
This was immediately followed by a feeling of annoyance with himself that having so carefully sealed the room in which he had decided to commit suicide, he had not allowed any way for his "out of body self" to get out. He briefly imagined that he might have to remain earthbound as a "ghost." However, hardly had this thought occurred to him when in his own words, he "went through the wall"

First he found himself soaring on a very precise trajectory over the roof tops of Bristol, then spiralling in what seems to have been the same tunnel experience reported in so many other cases. David then became aware of a light at the end of the tunnel, then of other beings around him. As he told me, "I can't describe them, it was just that I was aware of the presence of others." Then he seemed to find himself on some sort of "grand staircase" on which there were little groups of people at different points all the way up, some seeming to have a guide with them. Everything seemed to be of a lovely golden colour as from the light.  

But for David, the oddity was, that unlike everyone else, he seemed to be heading for the top. Then in his own words; "I got to the top and surprise, surprise, surprise, surprise, there was my father who had died some two years before.  I wasn't expecting any of this ....he was there and he stood quite calm. He looked substantially younger and healthier particularly in his complexion."

(David) I might well have expected some rebuke or something like that. In fact I did expect that ! But no such thing. There was just compassionate communication, no reprimand or anything and just telepathic....it was incredible, as if he knew everything I knew and I knew everything he knew!

After moving through more people, all "very radiant," David then had the most difficult to accept encounter of all; "I came into the presence of a being of light." On David's own admission, this was absolutely incredible....a total peace, it was like being inside a soft, gold neon tube; "You were enveloped in this...what I don't hesitate to call God."

David seems again to have been shown a life review during which he saw "without condemnation" episodes in his life along with the effect of these on others, on which the being seemed to comment

"So you see what you did then ?" That wasn't very helpful, was it ?" David then recalled hearing the words..

"Now will you go back ?"

Having barely mumbled an acceptance, David's next awareness without any apparent journey back, was of finding himself back in his physical body in an absolutely "incredible state"....collapsed on the floor but with the motivation now to try and live. After collapsing several more times he managed to reach his telephone and dial 999.

Although he subsequently lapsed into unconsciousness several more times, he managed to impart sufficient information for police and ambulance services to break into his home, leading to his recovery. (He apparently experienced a breakdown nine months later and was admitted to hospital but eventually fully recovered)

 NB Max :  Contains an out of body experience with no one else around to "project."

[Edited by an admin to add quote tags, tidy up a little, and add a note that the material reproduced is in the public domain]

George Alexis Bankoff (according to Wikipedia but I'm not certain) 1902-1996 was a Russian exile practicing  surgery in Harley Street, London. He was also a prolific writer under the pseudonym, George Sava. He is also the author of The Healing knife a surgeons destiny (1938) and a great many other works.  

Frances Gail was a clairvoyant who sought no publicity and charged no money for her services. She developed a serious
problem with her back and compounded it by falling badly which confined her to bed possibly permanently. She understandably became very depressed after medical advice gave her no hope for recovery, but she refused to give up and contacted Mr Sava, who must have been proficient in this type of operation. Apparently at first he wasn't keen on ignoring the advice of his colleagues but Frances's assurances (from her intuition)  that she would be alright, amongst his own inner promptings, obviously persuaded him to do the operation.

During the surgery she seems to have had a classic veridical 'out of body experience' and she completely perplexed the surgeon by telling what happened etc when she awoke (eventually). I've included a link to the on line book which looks a good read and this story can be found on page 53. I think it's significant that this report tallies perfectly with all the subsequent recent ones such as Lloyd Rudy's patient etc etc.         

Dr George Sava - A Surgeon Remembers, (pub. 1953; now in the public domain)  Chapter three, Spirits in the Theatre

As the result of her long confinement to bed and her age, Frances Gail did not seem to me to be in the best possible condition, and accordingly I planned the operation originally to be the minimum required to provide relief, one involving little more than a small opening at the base of the spine. My chief doubt was how she would take the anaesthetic. If I had been more certain I might have carried out a more extensive treatment.

As it proved, she took the anaesthetic perfectly well and her reactions to it gave no cause whatever for alarm.
This was one more surprise, but this time a welcome one, and I had barely begun the actual operation before, carried away by the generally favourable outlook, I played with the idea of substituting a more far-reaching procedure. This would involve the removal of the pieces of bone that were the cause of the pressure and pain and the removal of the disks that lie between the vertebrae.

The operation was interrupted while I discussed the wisdom of this course with my assistant and the anaesthetist. The chief danger lay in the time that would be occupied; it might be as much as three hours, and the problem was whether the patient could withstand it. But the anaesthetist had no doubts on that head, and, after some argument, my assistant agreed with me that the operation itself was perfectly practicable.

What had to be done was really quite extensive. Portions of the vertebrae causing the pressure on the nerves were removed, and the intervertebral cartilage that the disease had destroyed was also completely taken away.
Altogether the intervention covered no less than two and a half hours. It had been a strain on all concerned, not least on the patient, and I must confess that all three of us - the anaesthetist, my assistant, and myself-were more than relieved to find that she was still alive after this gruelling treatment.

She was much more than merely alive, too. The pulse was at a normal rate, and the respiration showed no signs of distress. When Frances Gail was taken back to her little ward we felt we had good cause to congratulate ourselves.
It was one o'clock in the afternoon when I left the nursing-home and returned, after a quick lunch, to my consulting-rooms, where, I knew, a busy afternoon awaited me. I felt that there was no need to worry about the case, and in the rush of work I put it out of my mind.

I knew the staff of the home well and had confidence in their ability to handle the case.  My peace of mind was not to endure long. I had not been home more than half an hour before the telephone bell rang, and I heard the voice of the matron of the home asking me to come round urgently as Frances Gail could not be awakened from the anaesthetic.
When I arrived, after a record-breaking journey, I found that the condition had by no means been exaggerated.  Already the patient was showing the dangerous blue colour that speaks of acute distress, and she was sinking before our eyes.  For all these alarming signs, there was no obvious reason for the continued state of coma. The young doctor at the home had carried out all instructions to the letter and had reported earlier that everything was as it should be.  This was indeed a puzzle.

There was no time to be lost. The appropriate antidotes to the anaesthetic were applied, and a grim fight for recovery began.  It was fully three hours before I felt she could be safely left.  She was then resting peacefully, and the crisis seemed to be passed. From that moment she proved an ideal, responsive patient. No complications whatsoever ensued, and by the end of the week she was able to sit up for a short while each day, while she kept up a constant chatter with the nurses……….
……….. I was on a visit to her and found her doing very well, then she looked at me oddly and asked if she might speak in private to me. Of course I assented and immediately I began to suspect that some new and surprising development was about to occur. Nor was I mistaken.

'Now listen to me carefully, Mr. Sava,' she said, turning her magnetic eyes full upon me. 'Of course you have done a wonderful piece of surgery, and for that you deserve every sort of congratulation. I've already thanked you for that. But there's another side to it, you know.'

'Another side?' I echoed. 'I don't quite understand.'

'I don't suppose you do,' she said quietly. 'Life isn't just simply the material body, you know. It isn't confined to Here and Now, as some people think-the majority, in fact. Our earthly lives are only an incident in our real lives.'

'I do know that is the spiritualist credo,' I returned, hoping I was not to be given a long lecture, 'but I don't see what it has to do with your operation.'

'Simply this, doctor. And take me seriously'. I want you to tell me why you and your assistants worked so hard to wake me when what I wanted was to be left alone to pass on - to die as people call it, though it is really birth.
It was your combined wills against mine - and yours won.
You called me back when I had almost crossed.'

'It was our duty to do all we could to save your life,' I remarked colourlessly, somewhat taken aback by this outburst.

'Yes,' she nodded. 'That is the doctors' code, and I suppose in a material world it is the right one, though I know only too well how much suffering has been caused by it.  But it wasn’t just your drugs and your attention that saved me, as you put it. It was the knowledge that all of you and my friends wanted me to live. I have come back at their call. I shall be better now. Don't worry I shan't make any more attempts to escape.'

She smiled brightly, while I stared at her in blank amazement. This was simply incredible. She laughed softly at my expression, which, I admit, must have been amusing enough.

'I suppose you think I'm a silly old woman making up fairy stories, but you're mistaken, and I'll prove it to you that I knew all that was happening.' She smiled again.

For all her devotion to her beliefs, she tempered them with a sense of humour - a rare gift among zealots.  'You didn't carry out the operation you first intended, did you, Mr Sava?'

I started with astonishment. 'Well, no. But . . .'

'In fact,' she went on calmly, 'you kept my body lying there under the anaesthetic while you and the others discussed whether it was strong enough to withstand what you proposed to do. You took away some pieces of bone and some other parts that I don't recognize. I don't know much about these things. You were chiefly troubled about the anaesthetic, and you said at one stage to the anaesthetist: "Do you think she can stand up to a good three hours of it? Heart all right?" And the anaesthetist just nodded as though I was some piece of machinery and said: "She's O.K., especially considering she's no chicken any longer." Is that right?'

This time she burst out laughing at my dumbfounded expression. All this was beyond me. I could think of no explanation for it at all. But she tried to give me one.

'You're probably thinking I've been doing a little judicious 'pumping' of the nurses. Well, I haven't. The little doctor is as discreet as can be and has never said a word.  As for the nurses, I always steer them off talking about the operation.'

'They wouldn’t know much anyway,' I said slowly, thinking how queer it all was.  ‘The theatre staff don’t come into the wards here’

'Good. That's a point in my favour.  But I shouldn't want to talk about it with them.  Having seen it all, I don't want any more’.

'Seen it all?' I gasped incredulously. 'But - but you were held under deep anaesthesia the whole time – two and a half hours.'

She nodded. 'My body was, that is to say my material body.  But  I- the real I – wasn’t in that body.  My astral body was up above trying to get away, you see, but you were still the stronger, and it couldn't get far, so I had to remain there looking down on what you were doing and listening to what you were saying. And that, believe it or not, doctor, is what often happens during operations.'

When you put a patient under anaesthesia you release the astral body from the material body; that's why it can't feel pain any more. But it's still tied, and it has to go back as soon as you put back normal conditions. I fought against it. That's why I wouldn't waken. I didn't want to go back to all that misery.'

'It's beyond me,' I said, shaking my head.

'One day these things will be as commonplace as the anatomy of the body',' she went on, a little wearily. 'It's really not so incredible. Scientists take for granted much more unbelievable things when they talk about the atom and so on. After all, no one's ever seen an atom, have they?'

'No. That's true.'

A little while later I went away. Her conversation had shocked me profoundly and I could not make head nor tail of the affair. She had not spoken to anyone apart from myself and the resident doctor, who had had any direct experience of the operation; and even if she had partially "come to" during the operation (which she had not) she would not have been in any state to make sense of what was said, still less to memorise it. Yet she had quoted words which, so far as my recollection went, were a verbatim report.

He goes on to say that he did not think Mrs Gail was guilty of any trickery in obtaining this information and then added it was a disturbing experience on which.... 'as I have said before, I cannot and do not express any opinion. I know that it impressed me deeply at the time'

[Edited by an admin to embed the video, indicate that the subtitles are reproduced with the author's permission, and properly enclose the quoted material]



Video published on 31 Aug 2017

Mrs Beatrix Keller, who lives in Malix, (Switzerland I think) experienced two NDE's during the course of her life. She relates these profound experiences in the following interview.

[The following English-language subtitles of the above video, from the Empirische Jenseitsforschung ("Empirical Afterlife Research") YouTube channel, have been reproduced up to circa 10m45s with the kind permission of the video's author, Franz Dschulnigg, via email initiated by Psience Quest admins]

Mrs Keller, you experienced two NDE's during the course of your life, what were the events that led to the first experience ?

The first event happened when I was giving birth. It progressed a little too quickly, at any rate it led to severe bleeding. I bled to death while giving birth; I arrived a little later at the hospital. It appears that I had already entered a state of shock before I arrived at the clinic. They were not able to give me enough support by means of blood transfusions. The baby was born, thank God. They weren't (previously) able to hear any heartbeat but it was very lively and cried very loudly, thank God, but I had lost lots of blood !

What really made an impression on me was the fact that I stayed fully present in this world but on the other hand I was very keen and precisely aware of my dying. It came through a sort of internal imagery. That is I was able to simultaneously perceive my surroundings, the real world...

You were standing outside your body ?

No, I was still in the body at that point.

And while in the body I saw a representation of my death in imagery form or internal pictures. I saw my body as if it were shone through with light, you could think of it like an X-ray but really colourful, each organ was coloured differently, each piece of tissue. Being able to see the blood flow was very impressive. It appeared as moving rivers of radiant light. Watching these streams of light allowed me to observe the progress of my death very clearly.
The light began to recede at first from the peripheral areas, from the hands, from the fingertips...the hands and feet grew darker. That's how it happened. At the same moment the light was extinguished, those parts that grew dark became ice-cold and this blood flow, this radiance withdrew from the legs and the arms.

An icy coldness spread outwards, my stomach grew dark cold as ice. Then I saw the liver go out followed by the kidneys, finally the heart went dark and came to a stop. The lungs too, the whole body simply became a black area, where it was bright and alive before. There was only light in my head.

I was aware of being in sort of like a large cathedral, a wonderfully beautiful space that was beautifully illuminated -a shining dome. I can still see the glass windows and arches but I realised I was still in my head and I saw the shining streams of light from my arteries as they became dark, how the coldness, the darkness shot up through my throat into my head. And I knew it would shortly become dark.

But it didn't become dark, the very next moment as it was going dark, I was standing outside my body. I saw my body lying there on the stretcher with all the blood, bandages and agitated people all around.

My body lying there with closed eyes, I, however could see very clearly. Actually better than usual.

Roughly how far away were you from the body when you experienced this ?

At first I had the impression that I was near the ceiling and was seeing everything from a fairly high vantage point but I moved downwards amongst the people-I wanted to communicate with them. At that point I was about at eye level with the doctor and nurse; my husband was sitting by the stretcher. I wanted to make it clear to these people who were working so hard that they should stop, that I was doing fine, as if to say, "It's all over now" but they didn't pay the slightest attention to me, they just carried on...

So then I tried to grab hold of the doctor by the arm, only to realise that the guy was made of thin air, I reached right through him and I realised then that.... well, I can't communicate with the people like that, it doesn't work. Moreover it didn't interest me in the slightest anymore 

When you said you reached through the doctor was this with your mental image of your hands ?

Amazingly I did indeed have a bodily consciousness, I knew where my arm was, where my hand was and felt the impulse to grab hold. But I can't say for sure that I really saw my hand, that was more of a shadowy thing. But that wasn't at all important  to me because I knew that I existed. I clearly perceived myself as a being, a living being that could think clearly, had wonderful hearing and sight.

The light did change however. At the moment I left my body, the lighting in the room was very different. I saw a green, a gold greenish light, very pleasant, very warm, somewhat 'olive gold' and what was really wonderful was that I heard a kind of heavenly music; music of the spheres perhaps and that made me so happy because I had heard this music as a child. From a long time ago, from my schooldays, somewhere along the way it got lost. Later as an adult I came to realise it was by Bach who played very similar music and I wondered if he had heard the same music I did which would explain why he wrote such beautiful compositions.

There was a certain similarity, perhaps even more impressive it was magnificent to hear something like that. At any rate at the point at which I left my body I felt simply perfect, marvellous, this was how it should be, how we should feel. I'm where I should be...I'm safe, all is as it should be !

What happened then ?

What happened next was first of all I felt a light sensation of being sucked out of the room. Secondly, I was beginning to think about my older child because I fully realized that I had died, that the body could no longer support me. An interesting thought occurred when I left my body. I thought to myself, "I can't keep my body anymore" How can anyone come up (invent) an idea like that, it was really very exciting !

And a moment later at the point of passing, I understood, Of course I am not this body. And I knew it wasn't a case of the body not being able to hold onto me... but rather me not being able to hold onto the body and for that reason I wanted to get away to see my child and how it was doing and at the same instant, I was right there at his bedside. I saw how peacefully the child was sleeping and how well it was being looked after by parents in law who were in the next room.

There was a sort of preview of the child's life, not in detail. I didn't see everything that he would come to experience but I did see very clearly that he would find his way---that things would turn out okay. That he would be a capable person-- that he would make the right decisions about living a good life and that he would get the support that he needed for that. That was a great relief.

A moment later I was back in the operating theatre in the midst of all the chaos going on around my body but I was only observing it and realised that I couldn't be of any use there... and I felt a powerful pulling away from there. I felt a suction out of the room, swept over the threshold which isn't actually there...I was already halfway into a different room when my little new born child began to scream, a horrible heart breaking scream which reached into my soul... and at that very moment there was also a kind of preview for this child. I saw there would be problems that for one thing would be recognised too late. That I should be there, should be watching, giving some guidance on events as they happened.

I shouldn't simply leave him to the care of others, that would turn out badly for the child. And I had been all set to get going ! Well, it was overwhelmingly painful, just horrible...what should I do now ? I can't get away I want (need) to go back.  And as a result of this strong intention, I was immediately back in my body. There was awful pain, it was ice cold... horrible [like Pam Reynolds returning to her body? --Tim]... it really did feel like climbing into a corpse!

Mrs Keller then describes a second near death experience that happened two years later which is transcendental and whilst interesting, I've left it out.