NDE Research - Changes You'd Want to See

 All the NDErs without exception regarded this doctor's views as laughable and worthy of contempt.

They laughed at Galileo.

They laughed at Galileo.

I think you've got the wrong end of the telescope stick, there, Malf. Never mind, nice to know you do read my posts occasionally.

I was referring to your suggestion - have a group of people who have had a deep NDE, use DMT and report on their experiences. The same people would be in both “groups”, but there would be two different groups of experiences - NDEs unrelated to DMT, and DMT experiences which are similar to deep NDEs.

I'm still not following. Are those two groups how you would sort the results?

I'm still not following. Are those two groups how you would sort the results?

Look at your original description - people who have had a deep NDE, who then all use DMT and report on that experience. The difference I suggest is - people who have had a deep NDE make a report on that experience (1). Then all use DMT and make a report on that experience. DMT reports which are similar (“report similar phenomena”) to deep NDE are selected (2). A collection is made of (1) and (2). A blind judge, who does not know that the collection is made from (1) and (2), is asked which are deep NDEs and which are not. 

Changes are in italics.

Linda

Look at your original description - people who have had a deep NDE, who then all use DMT and report on that experience. The difference I suggest is - people who have had a deep NDE make a report on that experience (1). Then all use DMT and make a report on that experience. DMT reports which are similar (“report similar phenomena”) to deep NDE are selected (2). A collection is made of (1) and (2). A blind judge, who does not know that the collection is made from (1) and (2), is asked which are deep NDEs and which are not. 

Changes are in italics.

Linda

Aha.

But this has drifted from what I'd originally meant by the suggestion - to see if the experiences are comparable for the experiencer. This could be useful as well, for several reasons, but getting a direct answer from an NDEr to the question "is the DMT experience a match for your NDE?" and "if not, why not?" was the goal.

Aha.

But this has drifted from what I'd originally meant by the suggestion - to see if the experiences are comparable for the experiencer. This could be useful as well, for several reasons, but getting a direct answer from an NDEr to the question "is the DMT experience a match for your NDE?" and "if not, why not?" was the goal.

I was trying to find a way of getting around the problem of bias in unblinded assessments. Did you have an idea about that?

Another approach would be to come up with a back story for the study which would counteract the bias. I’ll think on an example. 

Linda

But this has drifted from what I'd originally meant by the suggestion - to see if the experiences are comparable for the experiencer. This could be useful as well, for several reasons, but getting a direct answer from an NDEr to the question "is the DMT experience a match for your NDE?" and "if not, why not?" was the goal.

To some extent this is addressed in the NDERF questionnaire. Towards the end of the question and answer section, there is this:

At any time in your life, has anything ever reproduced any part of the experience?


Very often the answer is 'No', but there are sometimes responses here.

In practical terms it's difficult to identify these examples, there doesn't seem to be any way to search or filter the NDE accounts, so one is left with having to manually inspect each one. Perhaps Jeffrey Long would have more information if he is contacted.

To some extent this is addressed in the NDERF questionnaire. Towards the end of the question and answer section, there is this:

At any time in your life, has anything ever reproduced any part of the experience?


Very often the answer is 'No', but there are sometimes responses here.

In practical terms it's difficult to identify these examples, there doesn't seem to be any way to search or filter the NDE accounts, so one is left with having to manually inspect each one. Perhaps Jeffrey Long would have more information if he is contacted.

And he (Dr Long) is very contactable to his credit.

I was trying to find a way of getting around the problem of bias in unblinded assessments. Did you have an idea about that?

Another approach would be to come up with a back story for the study which would counteract the bias. I’ll think on an example. 

Linda

Well, if the goal is to get someone who's had one experience to report on whether a second experience is comparable or identical, then you're completely in the realm of the subjective, and I wouldn't even attempt to avoid that. You seem to want to have any assessment comparing the experiences done by a third party; while I (again) agree that could be useful, I would still want a straightforward answer from an NDEr on whether or not they would rate a DMT experience as comparable or identical.

Well, if the goal is to get someone who's had one experience to report on whether a second experience is comparable or identical, then you're completely in the realm of the subjective, and I wouldn't even attempt to avoid that. You seem to want to have any assessment comparing the experiences done by a third party; while I (again) agree that could be useful, I would still want a straightforward answer from an NDEr on whether or not they would rate a DMT experience as comparable or identical.

Because you are talking about subjective experiences, if you want a valid, straightforward answer, then you need blinding. Otherwise the answers you get will be strongly biased in the direction of your desired outcome (hallucinations and drug trips are not comparable to deep classic NDEs). I mentioned a third party because it would be easy for them to be blind. 

If you want the NDEers to be blind, then your desired outcome needs to be hidden from them. For example, they could be told your hypothesis is that DMT provides another route to the same mystical realm they encountered in their NDE. A bias against that idea would need to be on your exclusion criteria (again, collecting that bit of information would be done blinded - hidden in a more general survey, for example). 

Linda