How do you define the ego?

Did you feel that you were still an individual during those experiences? I ask this question, because usually the stories about oneness are rather vague, and it would be interesting to read a more detailed description of such an experience.

In my opinion this is the best and most detailed description of oneness:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/obe-book-defoe/...y-2016.pdf
(Page 38, under the heading Self-awareness)

It's hard to describe really.  My brain still registered everything else as separate from me in an academic sense and I was still able to function as normal but at the same time there was no distinction as I was just part of everything else.  In Swedish, we have two verbs for "to know"  Att veta is to know in an academic sense and Att känna is to know in a familiar sense and also means to feel (psychologically)  These two forms of knowledge are no longer working in unison.  I hope that helps.

Why would oneness be on a higher level spiritually than duality? According to information gained from mediumship, spiritually evolved souls are more individual than the less evolved souls. This conclusion is also logical. Oneness would only lead to some kind of vegetative state and annihilation.

I tend to think that oneness is not something we eventually attain, it is what we are now and always have been. The sense of separation is the illusion which has been created so that we can experience this kind of life without the awareness of the totality. Nevertheless, this life experience adds to the whole. 

I think that the ego is that which facilitates the filtering so that we assume that which we are consciously aware of is all there is. Psi experiences provide the clues that we are more than the ego, more than the sum of our sensory input and more than the temporary (and temporal) vehicle that we currently inhabit.

I tend to think that oneness is not something we eventually attain, it is what we are now and always have been. The sense of separation is the illusion which has been created so that we can experience this kind of life without the awareness of the totality. Nevertheless, this life experience adds to the whole. 

I think that the ego is that which facilitates the filtering so that we assume that which we are consciously aware of is all there is. Psi experiences provide the clues that we are more than the ego, more than the sum of our sensory input and more than the temporary (and temporal) vehicle that we currently inhabit.

In what we colloquially cal "the beginning", The One existed w/out any self-awareness but a knowledge that by 'dividing' Itself (in a holographic manner), It could experience an infinite set of POV of Itself. All That Is resulted. As you suggest, in order to have a very unique experience, as All That Is' 'ambassador' here in physical reality, we live our lives thinking we are separated from All That Is. This allows us to re-member who we really are, our True Self, a process that cannot be had in timelessness. Or I should say, a few of us re-member who we really are, the rest have a different path to take.

The ego is what grounds us in this physical illusion. The physical mind only can tell us what happened, not why or how any event that is spiritually motivating occurs.

Nice post, K.

[Ninshub]

Some people live in that madness. That's why I really think many people are 'insane'.

They might be surprised to see themselves behaving in a way that they don't recognise, like looking at a stranger. Is this the 'awareness' that I often read about? The really amazing thing is that some (most?) people can not ever see that difference, they are permanently in the hold of their ego. In other words, permanently in a state of 'road rage' or 'confusion', they 'wouldn't be able to get out of their mind'. If you were to try to talk to them about this, to explain how it might be, they just wouldn't get it.

Sorry, guys, for taking like 4 weeks to get back to this thread. Steve, I think you've this stuff down cold! :: I agree with everything you're saying in here at the end - of course I'm also insane 99.99% of the time.

Ego is also a rigid identity centered on the self and involves a near constant process of narrative construction looking forwards and backwards in time. As such, the ego is the lead character in the dramatic story that is one's life. The "ego" is what we've named the experience of being the lead character in one's own drama.

Being "stuck" in egoic perspective means that one is unable to modulate the feedback loop at the top of the consciousness hierarchy. It means one is unable to pause the process of narrative creation and be in the moment. It also means that one is unable to stretch or dissolve the mental boundaries of one's identity to reframe the narrative in a less serious way. Pain and threat of loss makes things serious, and simply altering one's perspective and playing with one's identity can reduce or eliminate the threat of loss or pain.

I think that "death of self" or "death of ego" or "mystical experience" or "persistent non-symbolic experience" or "spiritually transformative experience" or "meditation" etc... are all the result of a halting of the narrative creation process, a radical expansion or dissolution of identity, and the creation of an extra higher feedback loop that watches the ego and is able to modulate it.

Great post, Hurm. Really well articulated.

It's hard to describe really.  My brain still registered everything else as separate from me in an academic sense and I was still able to function as normal but at the same time there was no distinction as I was just part of everything else.  In Swedish, we have two verbs for "to know"  Att veta is to know in an academic sense and Att känna is to know in a familiar sense and also means to feel (psychologically)  These two forms of knowledge are no longer working in unison.  I hope that helps.

Tack, det var intressant att läsa om din erfarenhet.

Tack, det var intressant att läsa om din erfarenhet.

Tack själv Raimo.  Så förstår vi varandra!

From R A Wilson's "Cosmic Trigger"

In one experiment, I banned the use of the word "I"  from my conversation for one week. Mad Aleister recommends what Skinner later called "negative reinforcement" in cases of relapse; he violently slashed his arm with a razor every time he slipped and said "I." Your less hardy narrator substituted a less heroic control: I bit my thumb, hard, at each slip. By about the fourth day, I had a very sore thumb and an even more painful ego. The subjectivity and self-centeredness of normal human consciousness was hideously obvious to me. By the seventh day I had entered an altered state of consciousness and regarded ego as something of an inconvenient fiction.

 The video then goes into an argument into how pretty much the majority of suffering involves the ego. I found the list of forms of problems and suffering that he sources back to ego so interesting that I wrote it out below. 
Leo's list of the consequences of ego:

Personal consequences

fear and anxiety
anger, bitterness, hatred, violence and intolerance 
outrage and unfairness
guilt and regret
annoyances
criticism and blame
emotional pain
depression
dissatisfaction and disappointment with life
shyness and insecurity, confidence problems
being inauthentic and not acting according to your values
not liking one’s self (personality, physical appearance)
boredom
loneliness and neediness
stress and chronic fatigue
all addictions
sexual misconduct and cheating
lying, dishonesty and the spreading of untruth
exploitative and manipulative behaviours
all relationship problems
self-sabotaging
money problems
motivation problems
indecisiveness and difficulty making choices
gender identity confusion
being stuck in the wrong job or career
inability to realize dreams
inability to realize the highest spiritual experiences
inability to love others (incl. commitment issues, expressing love) and to be a benevolent force (compassion, etc.)
creative difficulties
feeling offended and self-righteous
falling into dogma and ideology
obsessive thinking
"accidentally" hurting loved ones
damaging other people (ex: business partners, etc.)
damaging the environment
dying a sorry death

Societal consequences

all wars in history
genocide, conquering nations, slavery
scams, ponzi schemes and theft
rape and the abuse of children and women
financial exploitation
capitalism and communism
caste systems and power hierarchies
corruption, bribery and nepotism in government 
religious intolerance, bigotry and homophobia
all religious conflicts in history
suppression of reason and science
suppression of authentic spirituality
cults and intellectual exploitation
witch trials and scapegoating
dictatorships, gangs and syndicates (corruption and abuses of power)
political gridlock and extreme partisanship in government
the oppression of human rights and civil liberties
the destruction of the environment
 

A few comments. Several posters have noted that the inability of most to "rise above" the lowly ego is one of the curses of mankind, and indicates a lack of spiritual development. It seems to me that many of the most important positive qualities and faculties and achievements of mankind are intimately related to and inseparable from this list of the evils of immersion in the ego. Things like for example creative achievement in the art and sciences and the positive results and progress resulting from entrepreneurship in capitalism. These sorts of activities seem to be fueled by the desires of the ego to achieve, also by desires of the ego to accumulate wealth and power, and fears by the ego that nothing might be achieved in life, or just fears of poverty and want. So many great works of art and music seem to have been fueled by suffering of the ego. I think that little progress would have been made out of the Stone Age without the drive to achieve for some times selfish goals furnished by the ego. The ego is an essential part of being human, and being controlled by it is probably the natural human condition. The negative results of immersion in the ego listed above are probably inevitable side effects accompanying the positive necessary essentials of being human, and without them the human becomes an empty "thing" without the exquisite complexity that is an essential part of being human. 

Much, though I don't think most, human suffering certainly results from the ego. I don't think anybody going through the excruciating pain of trying to pass a kidney stone will avoid the suffering by rising above his ego and realizing that the real he is not his body. The physical pain = suffering mechanism is built into the human animal brain and body. But it is interesting to observe how animals seem to suffer much less from losses of bodily function like blindness, amputation of limbs, etc. They seem to naturally accept their condition and naturally try to continue as much of a happy life as possible, rather than fretting and stewing and getting depressed and angry about their condition. This seems to indicate that animals don't have anything like the overriding ego that is natural to humans. I guess being human has its tradeoffs.

[Ninshub]

The negative results of immersion in the ego listed above are probably inevitable side effects accompanying the positive necessary essentials of being human, and without them the human becomes an empty "thing" without the exquisite complexity that is an essential part of being human. (...) I guess being human has its tradeoffs.

Yes I definitely agree. This week I've also been thinking of attachments and relationships, and if you're operating out of a complete-removal-of-ego perspective, you don't get attached in the same way and get to experience profound experiences with people that are distinctly human. Of course doing so opens the door to suffering and destructive behaviors, and possibly the payoff in the end isn't worth it (?), but there you go.

That's why I'm not and wouldn't want to be a Buddhist, personally, and  why I don't agree with perspectives like Leo's where he describes all criticisms of such "enlightenment as the slaying of ego" views as "the ego creeping in and manipulating" - there is perhaps something spiritual in these very ego yearnings, especially (but not only) in the attachment realm. Possibly living life as your personality, whilst also having a meta view - nurturing and blending both - is ideal (for some, including myself).

[Ninshub]

Much, though I don't think most, human suffering certainly results from the ego. I don't think anybody going through the excruciating pain of trying to pass a kidney stone will avoid the suffering by rising above his ego and realizing that the real he is not his body.

Here I don't agree. For many people, including me who knows what it's like to pass kidney stones (!), this plays a really minor part of our lives, and most of our lives is mental suffering, rather than physical pain.